So BWC WoW is the minor leagues?

[Keabit Guinness]

Seems that since Haldin and Ceregon left and created Resonance, everyone has wanted, or has left to go play with them in WoW.

Is this how BWC is treated in WoW? Like a minor league team. And will it continue in the future?

Everyone has a right to leave I guess, but what are these boards for then? BWC members? Or just anyone.

I don't really mind too much, but I guess I feel a little slighted. Is this what BWC members need to look forward to when a new game comes out? The Die-Hard players making there own Uber guild?

[Amit]

i dont even know who ceregon and haldin are is resonance on bleeding hollow?

[barbos]

Part of it is because the guild can't decide whether they want to be a top ranked elitist guild, or a guild of friends.

You can't be both.

[Sirion]

Not everyone left to play with us, we only have two former bwc members in our guild aside from ourselves, one who left when WoW first came out, and one joined recently.

Please note, that I am not responsible for any recruitment that comes from BWC specifically, and really not for any recruitment at all. The only time I recruit players is when Jim (Syke) has pre-okay'd it. Anyone that's ever come to me about joining from BWC I direct to him, this way I avoid the bullshit that goes down with some people that want to play the "old friend from Merlin" card when people continually piss them off (like mexal and sansa were doing to quite a few people), and I also avoid any accusation of myself ninjaing people that I've been playing with for a long duration of time by playing said friendship card myself.

Also, Resonance has only been semi active recently, a lot of us are becoming increasingly bored with WoW, and since many of us are RL friends, when one or two of us finds an alternative way to pass our time, typically speaking, many of us just go ahead and go along with it too. Not to say that Resonance isn't playing anymore, but a lot of us are waiting for BGs and more structured PvP that doesn't include running a 5 man over solo/duoers or going up against small armies with a single group. The rewards are nice, but we are more or less looking more for a challenge, which is hard to find currently in the game.

[Sirion]

Part of it is because the guild can't decide whether they want to be a top ranked elitist guild, or a guild of friends.

You can't be both.

I also think that this is somewhat a smaller version of BWC's current problem. You can be a top ranked elitist guild, and a guild of close friends, but it's very, very hard to do it when the guild is as big as BWC is currently.

I remember when I was in BWC on Merlin, there was quite a bit of drama, but back then the guild was very focused and Kim as well as Super, although to a lesser extent since he wasn't on nearly as much, kept the majority of the guild moving in the same direction. The drama that was going on back then was due primarily to personality conflicts between guild members; however, due to the fact that everyone had practically the same goals in mind, and were all expected to eventually do pretty much the same thing, the drama never reached the heights that it's been reaching in WoW. What you guys have now are separate groups of people, that want to do separate things, that value different parts of the game differently, with no cohesion or general direction for everyone to go.

For example, Monty is trying to get people to do Onyxia, MC, various instances as raid groups, while Hall wants to PvP. This is becoming destructive to the guild, because with so many people wanting to do so many different things, and two of the leaders wanting to do two different things, the guild has no focus and no direction. This is a decision that should have been made up in this guild months ago, do you want to PvE now, and PvP later, or do you just want to PvP (which is what alot of your membership signed up for in the first place) and screw the epic items?

There is nothing wrong with either answer, if BWC wants to become the next VV for the time being, I'm sure you guys have enough players to do it. But that might mean sacrificing some of the players that aren't here to do epic encounters for days on end, and vice-versa. Currently the personality conflicts between players are being amplified by the differences in play styles. Some of your players just down right don't respect some of their guildmates because of their play style, maturity level, play time, and "leetness" (or lack there of).

And quite frankly, you guys aren't alone on this. Several of my guys in Resonance want to do high end PvE content, and I don't blame them. It's not all that horrible if you can take it in doses with moderation, and you aren't trying to pioneer your way through it and wiping 10 times in 90 minutes. But there is an understanding amongst my players, that our primary purpose for playing this game, on this server, is to PvP. When BGs come out we will probably be doing a lot of 10v10 CTF, or perhaps get with a few other guilds and do some 40v40 tactical missions. We will get to the high end PvE content eventually, we will just have to work with other guilds to do it. Once my guys understood the direction of the guild, a lot of the arguing over what was and wasn't important, died down. Of course a few conflicts spark every now and then depending on personalities, but they don't cause huge rifts in the guild, because 1) we all play together and we kept it fairly small and tight, 2) because everyone knows the direction the GMs intend to take the guild, and 3) we only recruit people that will fit into our guild's atmosphere (they have to be good players, they can't be assholes, they don't have to play ALWAYS, but if they don't play a lot, they won't bug people to get help with this or that or the other thing all the time, they have to have a personality that won't conflict with the majority of the guild members', and they have to download ct raid assist and ventrilo and need to be open to various other mods/addons that we feel will increase our potential as a guild, and help us work together to do things with less players, because let's be honest here, we don't have a lot of members).

[Amit]

good post sirion. those bastards made pve and pvp unlike most games which only does one....

[Twystyd]

Here are some thoughts dealing with new BWC. I love alot of the BWC members and most are very solid player, some as good as anyone in Reso fields. I (no joke) removed my poly spell from my hot bar out of protest playing with newer members. MB, Rhuac, Talton (showed the pvp ropes too) can play. Pick and choose.

[Sirion]

good post sirion. those bastards made pve and pvp unlike most games which only does one....

I don't mind the sarcasm, but the issue here isn't PvE or PvP, it's the line that divides half this guild. I don't ever recall anyone in DAoC thinking PvP was worthless, yet I read a post just a week or two ago from a BWC member that said just that. This kind of thought (one or the other is worthless, and a waste of time) is infectous, and because the guild has no goals for WoW right now, other than what specific players want for themselves, it causes dissention in the guild. ToA did this exact same thing when it first came out. Once the guild finally sludged it's way through ToA the guild became more unified again. The problem here is that you will never be done with the endgame PvE of WoW. I don't care how many times you guys raid MC or Onyxia, you will never have gotten everything for everyone before that next raid instance opens up, or they put more loot on more random spawn raid encounters. With no achievable PvE endgame in sight for this guild, you need to decide if you guys are playing to get the best gear, then use it in PvP eventually, or once in a while, or if you are on this server to PvP, and you don't mind not being the best outfitted person in the entire game.

[Amit]

sirion i wasnt being sarcastic. i know a computer screen doesnt convey it but i really did that think was an insightful post.

[Joshll]

I don't mind the sarcasm, but the issue here isn't PvE or PvP, it's the line that divides half this guild. I don't ever recall anyone in DAoC thinking PvP was worthless, yet I read a post just a week or two ago from a BWC member that said just that. This kind of thought (one or the other is worthless, and a waste of time) is infectous, and because the guild has no goals for WoW right now, other than what specific players want for themselves, it causes dissention in the guild. ToA did this exact same thing when it first came out. Once the guild finally sludged it's way through ToA the guild became more unified again. The problem here is that you will never be done with the endgame PvE of WoW. I don't care how many times you guys raid MC or Onyxia, you will never have gotten everything for everyone before that next raid instance opens up, or they put more loot on more random spawn raid encounters. With no achievable PvE endgame in sight for this guild, you need to decide if you guys are playing to get the best gear, then use it in PvP eventually, or once in a while, or if you are on this server to PvP, and you don't mind not being the best outfitted person in the entire game.

Yes and no. DAOC was like that too. My big problem with WOW pvp is:
Just what percentage of the pvp fights you have are any good? My guess is most people would answer about 5%.

The vast vast majority of the pvp fights in this game are griefing/farming/zerging. Its extremely rare to see evenly matched numbers of opponents hitting each other when both sides are ready to fight and not busy with a mob or being afk. So the simple fact is that WOW pvp as currently delivered is a piece of shit.

So someone can say their guild is 100% focused on pvp, but I really liken that to the fanbois board warriors that precommit themselves to what they think a game will become. Because wow sure as hell isn't there yet. There is nothing close in this game yet to the pvp DAOC could deliver. Hopefully the BG's will deliver that, and then a true PVP focus on a guild is dealing with reality rather than on a hope that someday things will be solid.

And I think that when real PVP is there, where you regularly have fights and at the end feel that mega rush you get from a long skirmish against a skilled foe, then this guild won't have any problems focusing on pvp. But in the meantime, whats the point of a PVP focus? So you can wipe lowbies soloing, or lowbies travelling the road in Felwood? Or zerg hillsbrad? Or prove a point like Killets and try to attack Ironforge with a 5man? None of that is sustainable fun. Lets hope BG's are.

[Sirion]

Not all the PvP in this game exists in Hillsbrad and farming lowbies. There are several good alliance 5 man groups that exist on this server. It's not my fault that the only current way to incite fights (since there is no faggish radar like there was in DAoC to find battles) is to kill people. I for one, don't miss the gay assjams of 8man radar squads from DAoC. However, I also don't play WoW right now either so I can't comment on the deteriation of good fights in the passed two weeks or so. I can honestly say that I have about a 45% decent/good fight rate. That does not mean; however, that only 45% of the fights that I have been involved in have been fun. Some of the fights there are grossly more alliance than us and even though we die, we manage to take down a few before we go. Also, being ready to fight is purely circumstancial. You should always be ready for PvP to haphazardly jump into your face. Yeah, if you are getting ganked as a lowb trying to level then your pretty much screwed and yeah it sucks (it's not like people didn't use to do this in the gorge or for. sauvage but whatever), but as far as groups go, if your group is in a contested zone, and afk, then they deserve to die, especially if they are there for PvP purposes. End of story.