I'm playing a Banshee....
sorc you gimp
Daoc - Devon cluster / killibury cluster
WoW - 60 warrior - 49 warlock
X- Cleric - http://members.cox.net/dsquared10/DAOCKIR.jpg
WoW - 60 warrior - 49 warlock
X- Cleric - http://members.cox.net/dsquared10/DAOCKIR.jpg
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Joshll
- Donkey Fucker
- Posts: 865
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 5:34 pm
- Location: The cold tundra of Minnesota
- Contact:
Sirion, how can you say the PVP wasn't much better in DAOC? /boggle
Especially when we are talking about Old Frontiers. Even when WoW battlegrounds comes out I still think DAOC had a much deeper and much more robust PVP system.
Where DAOC was inferior to Wow is the classes weren't as balanced, and there were too many i-win RA's and items. Though WoW is on the way with the iwin items and talents.
And cheating in DAOC was much more prevalent, and that ruined things.
These comments apply to the real DAOC servers and not the dysfunctional dreds. Reasons why DAOC pvp was/is >>> wow pvp:
1. 3 realms was genius. Makes it much more interesting to have a 3rd contingent in there, especially if the realms were relatively balanced in power.
2. The vast majority of the RVR is 50's vs 50's. I really don't think you can say that about WoW yet. You either have Tarren Mill zerging, or you have people in other zones attacking people exping which are usually lower level and unprepared. Correct me if I'm wrong. What percentage of good fights in WOW can you find if you are looking? 10%? Even that sounds high to me.
3. The game engine is actually able to support large battles without huge lag and pauses.
4. Mutlifacted RVR - keep fights, emain zerging, relic raids, DF ganking hide and seek, small group action in Odin's and Hadrians, and newb battlegrounds. I spent a ton of time soloing on my shaman as a non-speed non-stealth class and it was viable.
5. Death penalty mattered more. You wiped a group or army and it took them longer to get back to you. This came into play more when you wiped an army, not such a big deal with a group.
6. I really think that in DAOC the classes could compliment each other more and that made a strong group >>>> 8 good players. In WoW I don't see as much interdependancy. (examples in DAOC a mage with a warrior bodyguard, or ae/stun PBAE, or having primary and secondary and sometimes tertiary CC & healing, or how a good group could hold a choke point very well vs hugely superior numbers).
7. I like the idea of 8 man groups better than 5 man groups. Made the group more capable because you could pack in more abilities and have backups. Now, in WoW's favor, in WoW you can run raids with the raidassist mod and it effectively creates groups of whatever size you want.
8. Realm rewards for RVR objectives. There was a real sense of real identity, competetiveness. There were short term realm rewards (like DF) and longer term realm rewards like relics.
9. I love the convenience of mounts in WoW, but speed was another dimension and advantage in DAOC that isn't there in Wow. Both as an individual class advantage and in the interdepenancy I mentioned in #6. Plus, no need to fakkin GRIND to get good group speed. Want an all EPIC mount group, yay, you all have to be powergamer grinders!
10. Did I mention grinding? you all can say that in Wow you don't have to grind for items to pvp, and maybe you don't, but lets face it, we are all powergamer min/maxers and are going to want all the good stats, resists, and item use abilities. Maybe not the best, but I want decent stuff. That means I get to grind. And a large part of that grinding is RAID grinding rather than solo grinding. In DAOC even when the screwed up TOA came out I was able to aquire a huge part of my artifacts solo, and I was able to level them all solo. I love exploring new dungeons, thats cool, but don't make me do them 10+ times so I am sick of it at the end and only doing it because I feel I HAVE to.
11. Drama! (well, way too much merlin inter realm drama with Drutt) but the alb vs mid vs hib competiveness on VN isn't there yet. It was fun to take a relic and yell "In your face Soldor!" "Take that Finbaby!"
12. CC - I like what very skilled use of CC allowed a good group to do. I can see the other argument though that less CC is good. But for the fights I like of being outnumbered and still winning, CC will be missed. I just hope that doesn't mean that a good guild/raid/group can't reliably do some amazing things and the game is not all about numbers.
Some of this stuff will change in Battlegrounds, some won't. And it will be interesting to see how the whole limit on number of people in Battlegrounds plays out. Waiting in line for an hour in order to pvp is not going to be cool. yah yah, sure, we can go camp the flight master in Southshore to pass the time while we wait. Wheeeee!
My final parting comment is that WoW screwed up stealthers just as bad as DAOC did. It made stealth 99.99% effective (making it the most reliable ability in the game), it didn't put in enough counters to stealth - there were no anti-stealthers really, and it gave stealthers stun and restun capability. So not only do you start out suprised, but even if you do have good reaction time, you still might not be able to do shit other than stand there and watch yourself die. Thats just totally F'd up.
And the whole concept of 2 druid/3 rogue groups is nuts. When BG's come out and you see more and more of these, it's going to be nuts. As a druid riding that wave, sounds fun, but I'm still questioning if it is good game design.
Especially when we are talking about Old Frontiers. Even when WoW battlegrounds comes out I still think DAOC had a much deeper and much more robust PVP system.
Where DAOC was inferior to Wow is the classes weren't as balanced, and there were too many i-win RA's and items. Though WoW is on the way with the iwin items and talents.
And cheating in DAOC was much more prevalent, and that ruined things.
These comments apply to the real DAOC servers and not the dysfunctional dreds. Reasons why DAOC pvp was/is >>> wow pvp:
1. 3 realms was genius. Makes it much more interesting to have a 3rd contingent in there, especially if the realms were relatively balanced in power.
2. The vast majority of the RVR is 50's vs 50's. I really don't think you can say that about WoW yet. You either have Tarren Mill zerging, or you have people in other zones attacking people exping which are usually lower level and unprepared. Correct me if I'm wrong. What percentage of good fights in WOW can you find if you are looking? 10%? Even that sounds high to me.
3. The game engine is actually able to support large battles without huge lag and pauses.
4. Mutlifacted RVR - keep fights, emain zerging, relic raids, DF ganking hide and seek, small group action in Odin's and Hadrians, and newb battlegrounds. I spent a ton of time soloing on my shaman as a non-speed non-stealth class and it was viable.
5. Death penalty mattered more. You wiped a group or army and it took them longer to get back to you. This came into play more when you wiped an army, not such a big deal with a group.
6. I really think that in DAOC the classes could compliment each other more and that made a strong group >>>> 8 good players. In WoW I don't see as much interdependancy. (examples in DAOC a mage with a warrior bodyguard, or ae/stun PBAE, or having primary and secondary and sometimes tertiary CC & healing, or how a good group could hold a choke point very well vs hugely superior numbers).
7. I like the idea of 8 man groups better than 5 man groups. Made the group more capable because you could pack in more abilities and have backups. Now, in WoW's favor, in WoW you can run raids with the raidassist mod and it effectively creates groups of whatever size you want.
8. Realm rewards for RVR objectives. There was a real sense of real identity, competetiveness. There were short term realm rewards (like DF) and longer term realm rewards like relics.
9. I love the convenience of mounts in WoW, but speed was another dimension and advantage in DAOC that isn't there in Wow. Both as an individual class advantage and in the interdepenancy I mentioned in #6. Plus, no need to fakkin GRIND to get good group speed. Want an all EPIC mount group, yay, you all have to be powergamer grinders!
10. Did I mention grinding? you all can say that in Wow you don't have to grind for items to pvp, and maybe you don't, but lets face it, we are all powergamer min/maxers and are going to want all the good stats, resists, and item use abilities. Maybe not the best, but I want decent stuff. That means I get to grind. And a large part of that grinding is RAID grinding rather than solo grinding. In DAOC even when the screwed up TOA came out I was able to aquire a huge part of my artifacts solo, and I was able to level them all solo. I love exploring new dungeons, thats cool, but don't make me do them 10+ times so I am sick of it at the end and only doing it because I feel I HAVE to.
11. Drama! (well, way too much merlin inter realm drama with Drutt) but the alb vs mid vs hib competiveness on VN isn't there yet. It was fun to take a relic and yell "In your face Soldor!" "Take that Finbaby!"
12. CC - I like what very skilled use of CC allowed a good group to do. I can see the other argument though that less CC is good. But for the fights I like of being outnumbered and still winning, CC will be missed. I just hope that doesn't mean that a good guild/raid/group can't reliably do some amazing things and the game is not all about numbers.
Some of this stuff will change in Battlegrounds, some won't. And it will be interesting to see how the whole limit on number of people in Battlegrounds plays out. Waiting in line for an hour in order to pvp is not going to be cool. yah yah, sure, we can go camp the flight master in Southshore to pass the time while we wait. Wheeeee!
My final parting comment is that WoW screwed up stealthers just as bad as DAOC did. It made stealth 99.99% effective (making it the most reliable ability in the game), it didn't put in enough counters to stealth - there were no anti-stealthers really, and it gave stealthers stun and restun capability. So not only do you start out suprised, but even if you do have good reaction time, you still might not be able to do shit other than stand there and watch yourself die. Thats just totally F'd up.
And the whole concept of 2 druid/3 rogue groups is nuts. When BG's come out and you see more and more of these, it's going to be nuts. As a druid riding that wave, sounds fun, but I'm still questioning if it is good game design.
retired
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heartless_
- Keyboard Molesting Forum G33k
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:33 pm
DAoC's PvP rewards were garbage. Made it only so the elite 8 person groups could advance to the top of the ranks. The more time you had online the farther you advanced in the tree.
WoW committed the same mistake and substituted items for RA's.
I hated in DAoC where 1 group could hold a tower or MF because CC basically was I WIN. And PBAOE was overpowered because it had unlimited # of targets.
WoW does the same thing with mage AOE, but there is no mass AOE CC spells that prevent you from fighting back.
WoW PvP is just like early DAoC RvR... damage is insanely overpowered and king. You die in seconds unless you have ways to heal yourself.
And yes stealthers once again... blah... so lame... makes me want to give up playing at all.
WoW committed the same mistake and substituted items for RA's.
I hated in DAoC where 1 group could hold a tower or MF because CC basically was I WIN. And PBAOE was overpowered because it had unlimited # of targets.
WoW does the same thing with mage AOE, but there is no mass AOE CC spells that prevent you from fighting back.
WoW PvP is just like early DAoC RvR... damage is insanely overpowered and king. You die in seconds unless you have ways to heal yourself.
And yes stealthers once again... blah... so lame... makes me want to give up playing at all.
actually wow's reward type system is worse the items and stuff are nice but you miss like 1 day and you lose half your abilities
Daoc - Devon cluster / killibury cluster
WoW - 60 warrior - 49 warlock
X- Cleric - http://members.cox.net/dsquared10/DAOCKIR.jpg
WoW - 60 warrior - 49 warlock
X- Cleric - http://members.cox.net/dsquared10/DAOCKIR.jpg
Mythic has actually evened out the RvR stuff a bit lately.
They handed out a pile of bans/suspensions to people running the "undetectable" radar last week, and said they are going back to the 1 strike and you are out policy. Radar hsa pretty much disappeared from what I've seen, been much more strategic.
They've also added "RvR missions". They are kinda simple, sorta like kill tasks, the "assasination" one that I've been doing has you go to a random outpost/spire your realm controls, to kill an assasin. The assasin is yellow con, pretty easy, and you get 300 rp. Takes 5-15 minutes, depending on where it is. Its giving low RR players a chance to do something to get up in RR's, plus it gets more people out in NF, so there is just more action.
Finally, they added tower razing which is just cool. At 25%, a tower goes to broken, like it used to at 0%. If you keep trebbing it down to 0%, it is completely destroyed. It stays that way until it remains in one realms hands for 3 hours. Has added a whole new dimension to RvR. If someone is being lame and camps a tower, you can just treb it down, however, you can't just treb every tower down, since once they are trebbed down, holding them is almost impossible, so forget it if your trying to open a port.
They handed out a pile of bans/suspensions to people running the "undetectable" radar last week, and said they are going back to the 1 strike and you are out policy. Radar hsa pretty much disappeared from what I've seen, been much more strategic.
They've also added "RvR missions". They are kinda simple, sorta like kill tasks, the "assasination" one that I've been doing has you go to a random outpost/spire your realm controls, to kill an assasin. The assasin is yellow con, pretty easy, and you get 300 rp. Takes 5-15 minutes, depending on where it is. Its giving low RR players a chance to do something to get up in RR's, plus it gets more people out in NF, so there is just more action.
Finally, they added tower razing which is just cool. At 25%, a tower goes to broken, like it used to at 0%. If you keep trebbing it down to 0%, it is completely destroyed. It stays that way until it remains in one realms hands for 3 hours. Has added a whole new dimension to RvR. If someone is being lame and camps a tower, you can just treb it down, however, you can't just treb every tower down, since once they are trebbed down, holding them is almost impossible, so forget it if your trying to open a port.
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Not playing much of anything besides chasing around the baby.
Not playing much of anything besides chasing around the baby.
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heartless_
- Keyboard Molesting Forum G33k
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:33 pm
You can still get items in PvE in WoW that don't require PvP rank.
PvP rank just lets people get equal gear without farming it with the side effect that if they don't maintain their rank they can't use it.
DAoC may be doing better, but with TOA the game was ruined. Artifacts are just flat out lame.
I hate companies that reward your hard spent time with more time consuming nonsense. I just want to get out and play.
WoW lets me do that to a degree and so does GW.
And there isn't buffbots required at all...
PvP rank just lets people get equal gear without farming it with the side effect that if they don't maintain their rank they can't use it.
DAoC may be doing better, but with TOA the game was ruined. Artifacts are just flat out lame.
I hate companies that reward your hard spent time with more time consuming nonsense. I just want to get out and play.
WoW lets me do that to a degree and so does GW.
And there isn't buffbots required at all...
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Keabit Guinness
- Donkey Fucker
- Posts: 794
- Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 4:30 pm
- Location: Maybe a town near you!
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Nilbert500
- Ass Jammer
- Posts: 1363
- Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:30 pm
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Keabit Guinness
- Donkey Fucker
- Posts: 794
- Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 4:30 pm
- Location: Maybe a town near you!
LOL, yep, an army of one.
Nah, Savage was 45, and skald was 41 before. I wanted to get the skald to 43 for red runspeed, and next thing you know, I was finishing him off. Same with the savage.
Only thing left I'm somewhat tempted to do is get a L50 stealther, but then thats it!
Nah, Savage was 45, and skald was 41 before. I wanted to get the skald to 43 for red runspeed, and next thing you know, I was finishing him off. Same with the savage.
Only thing left I'm somewhat tempted to do is get a L50 stealther, but then thats it!
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Not playing much of anything besides chasing around the baby.
Not playing much of anything besides chasing around the baby.
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Seventhorn
- Drunk Ass Fanboi
- Posts: 469
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:31 am
- Location: Santa Maria, CA
Nice post Josh...now all you fuckers come back to daoc already so I can have more fun=)
If someone can come up with a long ass post about how WoW>Daoc then I will have to give due consideration but to the lamos that post Wow is the Uber and daoc is the suck with basically no explanation why then i just move on to the next post w/o finishing yours.
If someone can come up with a long ass post about how WoW>Daoc then I will have to give due consideration but to the lamos that post Wow is the Uber and daoc is the suck with basically no explanation why then i just move on to the next post w/o finishing yours.
Liader Ventura 49 level Cleric Holy Rollers Lamorak
Liader Ventura 50 level Skald BWC RR9 now
Sateo Corleone 50 level Shaman still a bot
Savaneh 50 level Spiritmaster
Akazuken on many servers just pimp on one.
Lets have a sexy party!!!
Liader Ventura 50 level Skald BWC RR9 now
Sateo Corleone 50 level Shaman still a bot
Savaneh 50 level Spiritmaster
Akazuken on many servers just pimp on one.
Lets have a sexy party!!!
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