Hello everyone,
First off, I'd like to start out by thanking everyone in the beta community for all of your valuable feedback. Every bit of this feedback is useful for us moving forward with the development of WAR. Interacting with you on the beta forums and in the game itself gives us a vast amount of useful information that helps us make the game better with each passing day.
We will be wrapping up this phase of the beta on Wednesday, October 10th. At that time, we'll close down the Beta servers to external access. We'll reopen the Beta servers when we start our next phase of beta in early December. We will have a singular focus during this time - improve the game based upon all of the suggestions, feedback and bug reports that we have received. Thanks to you, we have a massive amount of information to use in improving the game, and we will use the time between now and December to do just that.
So what are some of the things that we'll be focusing on during this time? While we will work on finishing and polishing a myriad of systems in the game, there are several specific areas that we feel really define the core of what makes WAR a fun and exciting game to play. We will focus on improving RvR, Careers, the overall Experience (XP) curve, and the various Public Quests and PQ systems.
In RvR, we've hit a home run with our scenarios. Our own play testing and the feedback we've received at the various conventions and road shows indicate that this is one of the most dynamic and exciting aspects of the game. On the other hand, we feel that while the open field skirmishes and objectives are good, they need more attention and improvements. We have listened to your feedback and over the next several months we will focus on major enhancements to skirmish RvR purpose and ownership, zone control and RvR rewards. We‘ll make this as fun and energizing as possible, and I personally can't wait to see how the first round of changes are received.
Careers are closely intertwined with RvR. It doesn't matter how well the RvR experience is crafted if something about the career that you are playing isn't fun. We've released 15 careers so far and have been continually striving not only to balance them but to make them exciting to play. Over the next two months, we'll focus on enhancing the ability for players to differentiate their characters from other characters of the same career. Visually, we'll work on our tinting system which will allow you to customize the color of your armor. We will also implement our trophy system, which will enable you to attach trophies (skulls, dragon talons, etc) that you have earned to specific locations on your armor. Lastly, when we reopen beta you'll have access to most of the High Elf and Dark Elf careers as well. Great stuff awaits!
To some it might be odd that I would list the XP curve as something important that we want to focus on, but the MMO veterans understand why. The last thing we want a player to feel while they are enjoying our game is that they are "grinding" or having to "work" instead of play. We will focus on making this experience feel better overall to enhance the "fun" of the game.
Finally, I want to talk to you about Public Quests. PQs are one of the most important concepts that we've added to the PvE experience. As fun and exciting "pocket adventures", PQs have been lauded in the beta community (and by the media) since nearly day one. We are committed to continued improvements of the PQ experience across the board. During this time, we will polish and enhance more PQs, and will ensure that the Influence system is glorious and enjoyable.
Over the next two months, we'll be in close contact with the Beta community and with Goa who will be keeping the European beta testers informed. We want to keep your appetite sharp and your mind engaged, so we'll work to keep all of you in the loop as to what is happening as we prepare for the next phase of beta. There will be updates to the beta boards every week during the downtime to keep you informed and up to date with what we're specifically working on. There might even be some surprises thrown in there, so please keep watching the forums for more information! Also, please remember that NDA is still in effect during this time.
Thank you again for all of your efforts in helping us to make WAR a game that will be truly great. I will see you all in December, and look forward to meeting you on the battlefields of WAR!
Jeff Hickman
Senior Producer
Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning
Letter to the WAR beta members
Letter to the WAR beta members
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
hopfully, this means they are redesigning the game in a big way.
hopfully using a form of my methods.
What defines your Character as yours. What allows you to feel a certain attachment to your in-game persona. Is it the name? is it the facial expressions you pick and choose that define you as you. That separate you for the rest of the masses. What is it about Ultima Online, Everquest, World of Warcraft, Dark age of Camelot, that defined each player so well, that we have forever gained an attachment, and love for the characters we’ve created in those virtual worlds?
The answer is somewhat simple, but getting to that answer from our current state is the challenge.
Class/Character Development, The abilty to pick and choose the way we want to play our class. Caster DPS, Ranged DPS, Melee DPS, Tank, or Support. To play a role in my class and play it as it should be played. To feel as if I should lean more towards increasing my Heals instead of my Damage output, to increase my melee Damage at the sacarfice of my defencive needs. We don’t want to be told how to play our class, we don’t want to have our options taken away.
With that said, I have created a Huge spec tree(small version) which I think we should drive towards for our goal of a more indepth class development system, which would allow the playerbase to connect to there character.
I based my template/general idea off of the Tank Class, breaking it up into 3 spec tree lines. Each of the spec lines would be geared strongly towards a set play style. The deeper within that spec line the player places his leveling points into, the more enhanced that player will be within that spec.
Lets just get right into it. (yes this is scaled very very small, and hopfuly mythic will work out the bugs). Everytime you level, you get 1 spec point, which you can place in any Abilty slot linked to your “CLASS start” slot. Also, you can only spec into linked slots.
That will be how you aquire your skills/tactics/moral/stat enhancements(on top of the normal ones you get per level based on class). That will also be how you define your character, weather you’re a tank that wants to focus on attacking like a mad man, and having most of your styles based off your weapon. OR if you want to have most of your styles based of your defencive shield abilities. Or if you want your class to be a heavy support tank, with abilities that favor the group as a whole, aswell as abilities that debuff your targets, making them weaker towards certain types of attacks. If this was a Healer Caster class, the spec lines would promote stronger and different types of heals, hots, AOE heals, etc etc.
Lets dive into Advance Specs..
Style Attack spec:
There are 4 tiers to every tactic, and style. Each point you put into a style, unlocks the combo chain style within that set style.. Each level style attack within that SET style would have the same AP cost values, but each attack would have a different affect, being it a tuant, or a snare, or a bleed, or a debuff, or just an overall damage increase.
The styles would all be paired into the same button, If the first attack is successful, the next time you hit that attack style, it will automatically attack with the style L2, then L3, and finally L4 (if each attack was not blocked/parried/dodged). Also each style would have it’s own animation that flows from the next to the next to feel as if it’s one type of attack teir.
Tactic Spec: (either all tactics are passive and constantly attive when speced, or 4 sloted)
Each tactic also has 4 levels, each level of a tactic is +5% increase of set enhanment. Maxing out at 20% total. So if your tactic is.. increase chance to block, and you pump 3 points into it.. you now have a 15% chance to block. These tactics would also be based on the spec line they are located in.
EXAMPLE
TACTIC: Great Weapon Damage
T-level 1- +5% damage
T-level 2- +5%damage(making it a total of 10%)
T-level 3- +5%damage(making it a total of 15%)
T-level 4- +5%damage(making it a total of 20%) and also MAx level spec within Great weapons.
BELOW QUOTE IS A TACTIC SYSTEM BASED OFF THE CURRENT BUILD/DESIGN OF THE GAME
Morale Abilty:
Morale System gets changed totally around. Each morale abilty has a value of 25%,50%, 75%, and 100%. Which is the output the moral abilty gains when put into the set slot.
So if you have a “HEAL” moral abilty, if placed into the 100% slot.. it will heal for 100%.. if placed in the 25% slot.. it will only heal for 25%. This allows the player to have much more freedom in how they want to use what set abilty and where. These moral abilities would be based on the spec line they are located in.
morale should be gained when a player actually does an action.
each abilty, attack, block, dodge, evade, heal, magic spell, would have different values. (i don't think moral should still be gained for a tank "taking damage as his job".. his job is to block, not get hit in the face.
so if the moral bar was 100 points(%).. each attack(skill and such) would have a set value depending on what it is. Support classes would have a higher value point given for a heal then an attack. so it could be something as small as 2 points for an attack, 5 points for a heal.
Morale goes up. you get access to your morale abilties. When you use a morable abilty, you loose morale points depending on the cost of the abilty.
What i would like to see with the morale system.. is do away with these instant mega cast moves.
What should happen is each moral has a 3 second cast time.. during the time a player presses the morale abilty (on top of all the other changes i have suggested), the player has a bubble of immunty, pretty lights glow and such, and the player cast his spell, which has a clear showing that a mega spell is being cast.
For melee abilties.. it should look like a melee abilty.. the player goes into a trance for 3 seconds.. and then performs his "MEGA" attack. it just shouldn't be what we currentl see "a simple wave of damage from Raze" but the warrior actually grapples the target(keeping them in place) and proceeds to violently do his high morale attacks.. (which look like Omnislash from FF7, or any of those attacks from FF7).
That would add some much needed flair to the morale system (yes still on top of all my other changes with morale not being such a constantly used abilty.. but something that is very much earned)
Stat Enhancement Basic:
These are boost to your stats, being it +20 wounds, or +500 hitpoints(advance stats) or +100 tough(expert stats).. these enhancements would also be based on the set style they are located in.
Sweet Linked Abilty:
This is the jont cross-over location between 2 spec lines. Where 2 lines meet to perform some sort of beautfil magic. Where if a player specs equally in 2 set specs, and works his way up to where these are located, having a perfect balance in his character, he gets blessed with a sweet abilty, that is a mixture of both spec lines, being it a awesome moral abilty, or state enhancement, or skill to use great weapons with shield etc etc.
You will also find these types of abilty unlock at the very end of a spec line, to award the player for totally dedecating himself towards his set play style. He would get rewarded with (examples) the abilty to use 2 great weapons at once, to block magical abilities, or a mega finishing move of somesort.. you get the basic idea. It’s the master style for the master player, being the master of his class.
[quote author=Node link=topic=7885.msg80536#msg80536 date=1188248121]
Testpig, it might help to clarify that by 100% on one side and 0% on the other (e.g., Heals), you mean 0% invested spec-wise, and not a complete inability to heal. Seems a reasonable assumption to make out of the gates, but you can be sure someone won't get it.
[/quote]
Based on nodes comment below.
i'm BASING the current diagrams below off of SPECING within a line. EACH CLASS would still have it's BASELINE abilties that SCALE AS YOU LEVEL. so you will at all times be able to PERFORM the CORE of your class. Being it Blocking, attacking, basic healing.. what your class is AT IT'S CORE.
but with SPECING you get to GREATLY improve those skills AND unlock NEW abilties BASED off your spec.
BASE SKILLS would be: Scale as you level
-Single Target Heal
-Group Heal
-Single Target Hot
-Simple Single Target Rez
(the Basics)
The Speced heals would be
-Stronger Single Target Heal
-Stronger Group Heal
-Stronger HoT
-Groupd HoT
-Leaping Heal
-Life Tap
-Aura Heal
-Full single Target Rez
-PBAE instant Rez
Spec Line Balance. Showing how SPEC development should improve the spec line. Pumping more points into 1 spec line over another should make the spec line better. in the current system.. all the spec lines are ALL 100% powerful.
More detailed scale system of how a tri-spec class would work with it's spec tri option.
Giving the option to develope 3 set lines a certain way. (i based the scale off of a 200%, but of course it should be much less.. so that a player cannot spec 100% into 2 lines at all.., but for diagram purposes it makes it easier to understand )
Class Balance. The basic idea of paper rock scissors. Meaning something is always able to beat something else, no one is ever king of the mountain, top of the foodchain. Everyone has a counter balance.
Here I will list out each Class type, and list a counter balance for it, and reason why. Also abilities that are needed in the game to bring more balance to somethings to fuction better.
CASTER DPS: What is strong and weak vrs casters.
-Tanks Shield (can’t block magic)
-Tanks Great weapons (can’t block magic)
-Caster DPS: (can’t block magic, but also the counter to Casters DPS)
-Projectile DPS (can’t block magic, but also the counter to Casters DPS)
-Melee DPS (can’t block magic, but also the counter to Caster DPS) This class needs a ‘baseline’ charge type abilty that allows it to be immued to magical snares/damage for a set prd of time, aswell as have a movement increase to close the gap towards the casters.
PROJECTILE DPS: What is strong and weak vrs casters.
-Tanks Great weapon (not shield, so can’t block the projectiles)
-Tanks Shield(Very strong vrs Projectile DPS, can block 75% of all the attacks aslong as he is arc/facing the target)
-Caster DPS(can’t block projectiles, but also the counter to projectile DPS)
-Projectile DPS (can’t block projectiles, but also the counter to projectile DPS)
-Melee DPS (can’t block projectiles)
Melee DPS: What is strong and weak vrs casters, (requires Charge type abilty)
-Tanks Great weapon: no shield to counter the double weapons of melee DPS
-Tanks SHIELD: very weak towards them, can’t get past the defence
-Caster DPS: immunity towards magic with charge
-Projectile DPS: Can cut them appear if the gap is closed. Projectile Snares ignore charges magical immunity
-Melee DPS: slaughter each other
Tanks SHIELD: baseline Instant throw Weapon that snares when hits target in the back/side
-Tanks Great weapon: Really hurt Shield Tanks
-Tanks SHIELD: cancel each other out (longiest battle in the history of all battles)
-Caster DPS: kills tanks.
-Projectile DPS: Tanks can basiclly ignore their damage, and crawl to them to engaged
Tanks Great Weapon: Baseline instant throw weapon that snares when hits target in the back/side
-Tanks Shield: very weak towards great weapon
-Tanks Great weap: slaughter each other
-Melee DPS: hurt great weapon tanks
-Caster DPS: kills great weap tanks
-Projectile DPS: kills great weap tanks.
Simple abilities that need to be added are instant throw weapon snare, and charge immunity.
Follow link Below for: RvR focusing on RvR and group dynamics
in the RvR post, i will dive into CD, Group dynmaics, Goal based RvR..
http://forums.eamythic.com/index.php?topic=9531.0
Public Quest thread is here, focusing on RvR PQ's, MOBS, BOSS's
http://forums.eamythic.com/index.php?topic=9656.0
For Starters I’ll open by my stating, I LOVE Realm vrs Realm combat, the 1v1 PvP aspect doesn’t really gear towards me, it’s still has strong value in the big picture, but I’m strongly geared towards Team Work to complete a given task/goal.
Also I’d like to state, that I’m more in favor of Open Field Skirmishes, battling over objectives then scenarios matches(I seem them as having a place, but I don’t feel they should be the most important factor in WAR’s Realm vrs Realms features).
Lets take a view at the types of Realm vrs Realm War offers, and Break them down in how they might be improved.
Skirmishes: Incidental PvP combat
Battlefields: Objective-based battles in the game world
Scenarios: Instanced, point-based Battles Balanced with NPC dogs of war
Campaigns: The invasions of enemy lands culminating in assault on their capital city.
Looks like a strong solid list of 4 epic RvR options in war. Well it’s really just 2. Battlesfields and Scenarios.
I like Battlefields, so I’ll dive into that first.
BATTLEFIELDS: The open world of RVR combat/zones. Battling over Objectives that have value other then RP farming. Based on the Tier zone level, will determine how complex the RvR zone is, aswell as location and number of objectives needed to “control” the area.
Objectives Could be things as simple as a Farm, or a Mine. But whats the point of such objectives? What does the realm gain? What does the player gain? Currently. Not much. Objectives Should offer 1 way quest, that give a coin/exp/or renown reward when completed. (accept quest by looting chest, bring items in chest back to warcamp, get rewarded). Very simple, but enough to feel a reason to capture such objective. The quest should also be repeatable for aslong as the realm controls such objective(diminishing returns of course, or reward can be a random, of xp, or, coin, or renown, or item) so you never know exactly what you will get.
On top of the direct reward the player gets, the REALM itself should be rewarded aswell. If not for the sub-objective, then atleast for the MAIN objective(which would be the center keep/tower). That tower control would give all TIER 1 players a global enhancement, be it 5% more XP, or 5% more coin drop, but something that helps the realm overall.
Now that we got some of the basic NEEDS of rvr out of the way, lets break down RvR to make it more meaningful, and engaging instead of just gatecamping. In the above Sample Tier1 RvR image. You see a basic set up of how RvR should work. You have linked lands, that you must control before you can control the next land over. So Realm1, will need to capture and hold the objective 1, in order to advance to the center objective. But being that tier 1 is the simple learning RvR, it’s pretty straight forward. Each realm will be driving towards each other, and the focus battle will be in/around the center tower/keep.
SEIGE:
Yes I love Siege, I loved the Seige concepts of DAOC, but it did restrict many players into being ram bots. So in order to solve this issue, Siege equipment is totally automated. A player would talk to an NPC in the Objective bases and order that NPC to start moving the siege weapon. Players will need to escort the Siege engine towards the keep, and it will begin taking down the doors and such autmaticlly.
The defending realm will be able to destroy the siege engine, and stop it from advancing by killing the escorting players. If the siege engine remains destoried for a set amount of time, it will vanish and respawn back at the basic objective base.
Players can repair the siege engine by just clicking on it for about 30 seconds or so, to get it moving again. Capture the tower, by placing the flag on the tower unintruped for 60 seconds. (Think the FPS enemy Terrirtory, where you would have a moving objective as the focus of an early stage in the match to let you get into the enemies base)
(respawn points are outside the combat circle/not within the tower/keeps/objectives)
View Tier 2 Battle Field
This gives you a more indepth idea of how advancing in Tier advances the complex RvR battlefield. Same idea of tier 1 RvR, but more objectives to fight over, and more Keeps to hold. Even a center path that connects the keeps to have another form of engagment.
You can possibly also get a feel for the type of linked battle from Tier 2. (think Risk, the game of world domination). Attacking linked lands. Controling and holding. And trying to “cut off” the chain of land control of the other realm. With the higher tier you get more strategic options. Like cutting off the linked lands. Which will automatically start the lands which are no longer connected to the realms Warcamp to slowly start to loose control(UNLESS of course the objective has players of that given realm defending within it), thus allowing a realm to still HOLD a objective even if they are no longer linked. But once they leave the grounds of that objective, it will start to diminish.
That the basics of RvR openfield.
Scenarios: Instance RvR
These are just games to me, capture the flag, 6v6 arena battles, Nothing that should really define the realm other then rewarding the players within it with renown points. It’s such a private area, that a player can’t just run in and out of, thus should not really be the overall focus of what drives the realm to victory. Perhaps someone that is a strong supporter of Scenarios can provide some content on them. I never liked them in WoW, and I don’t like them in War.
Realm Vrs Realm, is Team vrs Team, Groups vrs Groups. How do we promote More teamwork, More group Dynamics, how do we promote players to accept and desire any class into their group,? RvR/PvE tend to aquire different classes for the reasoning that we all know. A PvE group would take a healer, a caster, and a bunch of Tanks/Melee DPS just to slaughter all the High level PvE mobs. And that’s great, group dynamics seem to be very balanced when it comes to PvE, almost every class can provide something to the group and feel useful.
But once we take that same dynamic and try to transfer it into the PvP(RvR) aspect of the game, it just falls apart, groups tend to funnel towards classes which will have the most possible and fastest damage output, Casters DPS, Ranged DPS, and even Melee DPS. Classes such as Tanks find themselves unwelcome. And also how these Games tend to work that Range > Melee, why would anyone take a class that they will have to constantly feed heals to? That is just a leech of action points to try to keep alive?
So with that said, I want to propose an idea to promote grouping, aswell as promote having classes that you might feel don’t really bring anything to the table when they are in the mix. I would like it if, each class once groups would have an automatic AURA effect activated(passive abilty) that improves the groups overall effectiveness in some way or another. Also if you have 2 of that set class in your group, or 3, 4, 5, or even if your entire group is all of 1 set class. Each will will a different passive enhancement to the group.
I’ll make a list based of TANKS, because well, I have a soft spot in my heart for them.
If your group has:
1 TANK: you will gain +5% Toughness
2 TANK: you will gain Above + 5%wounds
3 TANK: you will gain Above + 5% AP regen
4 TANK: you will gain Above + 5% Str
5 TANK: you will gain Above + 5% damage output
6 TANK: you will gain Above + Increased Heal over time while in combat
Of course each class type would offer Enhancments based off their class type, so tanks offer Tank like enhancements.
This I belieave would be a great way to promote inviting any class into your group.
Collusion Detection: Player Size, Melee Range, and basic CD.
If a players model is bigger (black orc, chosen) they should have a much large CD box, aswell as much larger range with their weapons based off the size od their CD box. CD is important to the group dynamic because CD can be used as a HUGE part of RvR aswell as PvE.
On top of that, I also feel Classes such as the Chosen, and the Blackorc (heck all TANK classes) should have a much slower timer on all their styles, but each style should have a large swinging arc and hit multi targets at once, aswell as increased damage. I don’t want the tank to be a frontloader single target class like a Melee DPS, but it should be a class that swing it’s huge weapon around, hitting anything around it. Would make Tank classes something to fear, instead of something that just bothers and nips at your knees.
Having Tanks play the roll of Tanks, blocking doorways, blocking stairwells, Standing in a line, holding back the enemy forces, as the range casters and projectile players rain hell from afar.
Below is how I feel combat should basiclly look like in overhead football type View.
Most of the melee classes are engaged in the center of the battle. Tank classes defending melee DPS class from ranged DPS, and Melee DPS. Support classes healing the Tanks. Caster DPS classes Atttacking the Tanks. Outskirt Tanks engaging Ranged DPS. Melee DPS classes attemping to “Charge” a caster, but get blocked by 2 CD TANKS. Ranged DPS classes sneaking around behind, and sniping down the support classes. You have classes focusing there attacks on classes they know are weak towards them. And to counter that, you have classes supporting those weaker classes in different ways. Being it Defending abilities, or CD, or just heals, or sniping.
In the current build, you just have any old range class destroying all the melee classes, and that’s just shouldn’t be. It’s not balanced, and demoralizes the playerbase from building Melee DPS / Tank classes.
The current Map/layout design seems off in how it brings 2 different races to engage each other of equal level. The only Chapters that are seem to be paired properly against each other is Chapter 3 of the Dwarfs, and Chapter 3 of the Greenskins. And chapter 6/7 of Greenskin/Dwarf Every other chapter pairing per zone throws a much different level range against each other. Even if it’s only by 4 levels or so, it’s still enough that will cause players not to engage in RvR until they have reached the “top notch” level in their RvR Tier. But it goes more indepth then just the pairing placement.. it’s also the placement on the maps. That a player needs to travel across and besides a player of the enemy realm, and can only engage in combat in the “set RvR zone”. That just doesn’t sit well with me in WAR.
Above is how I think WAR should work. Each chapter is nearly directly across from the opposing realms chapter (chapter 1 vrs chapter 1, chapter 4 vrs chapter 4 etc etc). Each Tier Zone would act as 1 large/long plain of land. Divided into 5 main sections.
2 PvE Race Specfic Always SAFE PvE zones (players for the enemy realm can in no way ever enter these lands. They are 100% safe, the only entrance would be via Chapter Cities, and also heavily guarded boarder patrol. No Enemy players should ever be able to make it over the wall to grief anyone(killing player mobs etc etc), That zone is the WHITE zone. IT’s cut into 3 Chapters, and has many quest camps scattered within it.
The next 2 Zones(orange) would be the PvE/RvR Zone.. for players that want that extras risk, and be rewarded for it. Quest in these zones would come mainly from the QUEST camps. These quest camps are guarded by NPC’s and have NPC’s boss within it. It’s not a simple task to claim one of these quest camps, would need atleast 2 groups working togther. Quest camps are also scaled for the Chapter it rest within. So a group or 2 of chapter 1 players would be able to capture one of these Quest Camps. Each Race also automatically starts off with their own Quest Camps. You only really need to capture the enemy quest camps.
If your realms quest camp is captured, the other realm will have access to some of the quest within it, escort quest mostly and looting quest (raiding the village, or freeing prisoners). When your Realms Quest Camp is captured, Guards from your Realms Chapter City will start to rally troops outside the Chapter city, and once they reach a set amount of guards (15+1 boss, 3 rows of 5) they will begin to march out towards the Quest camp, and attempt to reclaim it. If they fail.. they will rally up again adding 5 more troops outside the chapter city, and march towards the quest game again.
Also in these Zones, you have many PvE quest, and a many RvR quest, the PvE quest would be just like any other PvE quest, in terms of challenge, and story, the only difference is you can be attacked by an enemy player. Of course the XP reward would be increased and possibly Renown. Don’t worry about those players that much, these Areas are also patrolled (via Roads) by guards. SO you can still run to your near by guards for help, and they will assist(but they will still be killable, nothing is god mode in these lands)
In these Areas you will also find the RvR PQ’s (see post RvR Revamped in sig). Ways to engage the players over a set objective with an RvR twist.
The 5th area in this zone is the constant RvR live area. NO NPCS, nothing but player vrs player, realm vrs realm combat over the main objectives placed within the land (see RvR revamped post for more details).
I belieave if the map/land layouts goes more along these lines, we might have a more fullfilly game that really bring the idea of WAR into our hearts.
I heard the phrased “There is no dancing In War”. Well, I need to ask, where is the war in WAR?
EDIT: Added an Overlay option to get a stronger feeling how the map can still work with the land textures
-Public Quest that benefit from the participation of the entire army.
-Conflict quest that pit players against an enemy with opposing goals.
The Public Quest, the great new concept mythic has created to tone down the feeling of “grinding” away on countless mobs to gain XP and level up in the Warhammer world. But there is just something about these public quest that don’t define them as such a stand along strong feature. Yes the idea at it’s core is great. But why stop where it is? Why not take the PQ to the next possible level? For years I have played video games, and many many times, I find myself sitting there, and thinking “they could have really done more with this”. So with PQ’s that’s where I find myself. I thank the lords of Mythic that I am in the beta so I can actually help in the process of trying to build a perfect or atleast near perfect game. That I can just waste the rest of my life on.(ha).. So with all that said. Lets get into Public Quest.
First things first, keep in mind I’m using the PQ concept as the core, and simply adding to and mixing things up abit, also, re-working some of the overall ideas of the PQ. Under the idea I’m pushing, I’m breaking PQ’s up into 4 types of Public Quest.
-RvR Public Quest
-Large Scale Public Quest
-Medium Scale Public Quest
-Small Scale Public Quest
•Realm Vrs Realm Public Quest:
These are Public quest that are also RvR areas, These can vary in size and scale.. but should be somewhat small, to keep the battle close and focus into 1 solid area. These PQ’s would have a strong mixture of friendly NPC’s and Enemy player targets to overcome to advance in the PQ. While these PQ’s are mostly RvR based, they really wont have a “BOSS”(boss section down below on the new boss designs). But more so an objective which gets claimed.
A good example of a RvR PQ area would be the early stage PQ in mount Bloodhorn, where the greenskins are required to kill 100 dwarfs, and the stunies are required to kill 100 Greenskins. This is already screaming to become an RvR engagment. First off (lesson the numberes overall on these PQ’s stage 1’s should not be so drastic, there should never be a requirment of killing 100 of anything, should be 25-50 at most, with that said..) So stage 1 requires to kill 50 Dwarfs(I’m coming from a greenskin point of view), and us greenskins do so, killing a mixture of NPC dwarfs, and dwarf players. Stage 2 now begins for us, which would be “Push Forward, and set the Dwarven Buildings on Fire”.. the Dwarfs will now be in stage 2 of “Defend your Buildings, put out the flames!”… Finaly Stage 3 would come around after all the buildings have been set ablaze, which would be something along the lines of “set your flag in the center of the battle, and become the king of the hill (for a set time). The dwarfs would be on stage 3 of “reclaim the center of battle, and destroy the greenskin flag”.. etc.
If however the Dwarfs then stop the greenskins flag, and destroy it, they then drop down to stage 2, which requires them to set the enemy town ablaze. And so on and so on and so on. Perfect Small scale RvR PQ’s. Of course this is just an example as to what can be.
•Large Scale PQ’s & Medium Scaled PQ’s
Basiclly the same thing, just the amount of kills varies from one to the next, also the complexed objectives varry based on the overall size. And of course, the Challenge of the end BOSS would varry based on size. (I’m really excited for the new boss concepts down below!)
•Small Scale PQ’s
This is something I’m really hoping for. A public Quest that 1 or 2 players can complete all alone. I’m talking VERY small scale. These would be PQ’s located in each and every single Cave in the game. Or at those random points of intrest that are viewed way off into the distance. Open your imagination for a moment to see what I see in my head.
In the distance I see a the shape of a large Building towering above the tree line in. I travel the off the main road, into a land that I have no quest in, I have no real reason to go into this direction, but that tower.. that tower must have some importance to it. I arrive at the tower to discover nothing.. nothing at all but useless NPC’s. That’s how it currently is in the game. However, I have something different in mind, That tower can offer so much more. Instead of just more random NPC;s to kill for no reason othen they being in my way. Give me reason on the spot. A new SMALL scale PQ!
Stage 1 “you have discovered the darken tower, Kill 5 guards patrolling the tower”
Stage 2 “Destory the Towers door, watch out for Patrols!”
Stage 3 “Enter the tower and kill the 4 mages which have poisoned the lands!”
Stage 4 “Kill the tower Lord! And remove his head!”(tower lord would be a “special” non-boss mob. You then get a nice XP reward, and can loot a few chest for cash reward from the tower itself.
It would be a quick fun rewarding lil quest, that can then open up larger quest in town after you return the head to the local “headhunter” npc.
The same idea can work for those random caves we tend to ignore because there is no reason to go into them unless for if we by chance have a quest for them.
Stage 1” kill 5 spiders”
Stage 2” find and kill the 5 spider eggs”
Stage 3” The Queen of the spiders has return to the lair, Slay her before it’s to late!”
Etc etc. Simple, straight forwad, rewarding.
Now for what will make Medium PQ’s and Large Scale PQ’s exciting.
Lets start with a basic view of what the current Build has for Mobs/Specials/Bosses. Currently the only thing that defines these 3 types of mobs as different is the amount of hitpoints they have or the amount of damage they deal.. Nothing really defines a boss as a boss or a special mob as a special mob. Bosses act/react/feel/look exactly like normal mobs. (this is something DAOC suffered in aswell)
So lets just list adjustments to make MOBS feel more like MOBS and for players to feel more like a Hero.
MOBS:
-Makes mobs have A LOT less hitpoints. So that we just cut through them like butter. I should not have to use over 2000Ap , a moral ablity, and 4 full PvE focus tactics to kill 1 simple mob. I should be able to cut these simple equally level mobs apart. Heck increase the number of mobs in the area, I just want to cut them apart, to be surrounded, and hacking away, kicking some down to the ground, and crushing skulls.
SPECIAL MOBS:
-They Should be rare. Random mobs that you NEED to use your morale abilities on, that you need to really worry about, that you think to yourself “should I engage him alone?” Special mobs should perform styles, have a nice pool of hitpoints, and generally give you a run for your money. But also reward you nicely when you slay them
BOSS MOBS:
This is what needs a Major overhaul. BOSS mobs are currently just stronger normal mobs with no flair. No real thought process goes into defeating it other then “ok just hit it over and over again”. We should Bring BOSS mobs back to the concept of Video games. MegaMan, Strider, Ninja Gaiden, Metroid, FF3, Metal Gear Solid, Devil May Cry, etc etc. Games that the bosses were something MORE then just attacking at it to win.. Bosses that would react based on your actions towards it. That would have “Weak Spots” and “paterns” that you memorize in order to survive.
With that I introduce Basic BOSS mob1
BOSS mob 1. Your basic Melee Type boss, comes equip with highe melee damage, and high fast pace aggression. Has 2 points of intrest for targeting to attack. The weapon, and the Boss itself. You really get to pick which you want to lay waste too, but dealing damage to one will affect the other. The bosses actions will very much be in response to where his current Life is at.
Boss at 75-100% life.. you have him being pretty confident.. strutting around, Attacking players normally, and having a few set “styled” attacls
-Raises axe high into the sky, holds it for a few seconds, says some words, and smashes the axe down into a marked area on the floor. These types of attacks you see coming, thus you can manually Dodge/avoid them. When his axe is pluged into the ground, you can then target the axe, to begin to attack it.. Targeting his weapon will decrease his overall damage.
Boss at 50-75% life.. His a lil worried, so now he starts his next wave of attack, which he hold his axe around behind his back for a second, says some key words, and begins to spin spin spin all over the place (PBAE typpe damage), again something you can dodge manually… After this set attack the BOSS finds himself dizzy, and open attacks towards his axe and body
Boss at 25-50% life.. Now the boss is worried, he starts to call for help, mixing his attacks between the axe drop, and the spin.
Boss at 1-25% life.. the Boss is really enraged, and deeply concerned with his life… he calls for more help from NPC’s, and now has a NEW attack in his pocket, where he jumps into the air, and smashes down near all those dealing the most damage to him, stunning them, and then performing his PBAE spin attack in rage mode.. cuasing him NOT to become dizzy afterwards. Everything is all on the line at this point. His finally at 1% life, and drops his axe.. now is the time to slay the boss. You rightclick the AXE, pick it up, and swing it down on the bosses skull.. VICTORY. Boss from PQ1 is destoried.
(now you say.. what if I destoried his axe earlier?, the answer to that is, the axe would have been dropped sooner, and you would be able to lay down some major damage towards the BOSS)
INTROUDCING BOSS 2
I wont need to go into such details as I did with boss one, because now you have the basic idea as to how bosses should/could work. I’ll just point out examples of what else can be done. Like having a target point be the legs of the “HUGE GIANT BOSS”, which would a: slow down the movement of the giant, and B: randomly bring him down to his knees so you can laydown some harder damage with the boss being weakened.
This is what I WISH and DREAM and HOPE to dear mythic god, we do the enhance the PVE in this game. Normal Mobs are normal everyday mindless mobs. Just like the good ole Table Top games of D&D when your DM would just have you randomly encounter basic goblins walking around.. a quick kill.. But when it came to the named BOSS mob of the TT adventure.. the battle would take hours, and you would have to figure out the “key way” to get past the bosses shield by using the krystal you were found with when dropped off as a child in front of the church.
PQ REWARDS (newly added)
Currently you do ALOT of work for very little reward in the big picture of PQ's and Inf. So Lets change it up a tad.
We remove the current PQ quest rewards, and stick those items into a INF Vendor. that vender using Inf to purchase Items/Weapons/Armor sets of all type and kind. each item scaling with some pretty nice inf cost.. (which will cuase the player to hang around and do more PQ's in the area.)
Now as for Inf Stage rewards.. as you go from basic/advance/expert.. the rewards will totally change from Items, to abilties/tactics/morales/stat enhancements. These tactics and skills can be simple, such as increase the ammount of INF you get per kill.. or DO EXTRA damage to bosses. etc etc. Something that might be purely a PvE Tactic.. some can even just be as on par as our standard tactic.
hopfully using a form of my methods.
What defines your Character as yours. What allows you to feel a certain attachment to your in-game persona. Is it the name? is it the facial expressions you pick and choose that define you as you. That separate you for the rest of the masses. What is it about Ultima Online, Everquest, World of Warcraft, Dark age of Camelot, that defined each player so well, that we have forever gained an attachment, and love for the characters we’ve created in those virtual worlds?
The answer is somewhat simple, but getting to that answer from our current state is the challenge.
Class/Character Development, The abilty to pick and choose the way we want to play our class. Caster DPS, Ranged DPS, Melee DPS, Tank, or Support. To play a role in my class and play it as it should be played. To feel as if I should lean more towards increasing my Heals instead of my Damage output, to increase my melee Damage at the sacarfice of my defencive needs. We don’t want to be told how to play our class, we don’t want to have our options taken away.
With that said, I have created a Huge spec tree(small version) which I think we should drive towards for our goal of a more indepth class development system, which would allow the playerbase to connect to there character.
I based my template/general idea off of the Tank Class, breaking it up into 3 spec tree lines. Each of the spec lines would be geared strongly towards a set play style. The deeper within that spec line the player places his leveling points into, the more enhanced that player will be within that spec.
Lets just get right into it. (yes this is scaled very very small, and hopfuly mythic will work out the bugs). Everytime you level, you get 1 spec point, which you can place in any Abilty slot linked to your “CLASS start” slot. Also, you can only spec into linked slots.
That will be how you aquire your skills/tactics/moral/stat enhancements(on top of the normal ones you get per level based on class). That will also be how you define your character, weather you’re a tank that wants to focus on attacking like a mad man, and having most of your styles based off your weapon. OR if you want to have most of your styles based of your defencive shield abilities. Or if you want your class to be a heavy support tank, with abilities that favor the group as a whole, aswell as abilities that debuff your targets, making them weaker towards certain types of attacks. If this was a Healer Caster class, the spec lines would promote stronger and different types of heals, hots, AOE heals, etc etc.
Lets dive into Advance Specs..
Style Attack spec:
There are 4 tiers to every tactic, and style. Each point you put into a style, unlocks the combo chain style within that set style.. Each level style attack within that SET style would have the same AP cost values, but each attack would have a different affect, being it a tuant, or a snare, or a bleed, or a debuff, or just an overall damage increase.
The styles would all be paired into the same button, If the first attack is successful, the next time you hit that attack style, it will automatically attack with the style L2, then L3, and finally L4 (if each attack was not blocked/parried/dodged). Also each style would have it’s own animation that flows from the next to the next to feel as if it’s one type of attack teir.
Tactic Spec: (either all tactics are passive and constantly attive when speced, or 4 sloted)
Each tactic also has 4 levels, each level of a tactic is +5% increase of set enhanment. Maxing out at 20% total. So if your tactic is.. increase chance to block, and you pump 3 points into it.. you now have a 15% chance to block. These tactics would also be based on the spec line they are located in.
EXAMPLE
TACTIC: Great Weapon Damage
T-level 1- +5% damage
T-level 2- +5%damage(making it a total of 10%)
T-level 3- +5%damage(making it a total of 15%)
T-level 4- +5%damage(making it a total of 20%) and also MAx level spec within Great weapons.
BELOW QUOTE IS A TACTIC SYSTEM BASED OFF THE CURRENT BUILD/DESIGN OF THE GAME
more indepth view on tactics (based off a level 10 4 tactic slot system)
TANK 1 buys with his 4 points
-Shield spike1
-HoT in combat 1
-Toughness 1
-Bleed 1
Tank 2 Buys with his 4 points
-Blocking 2
-Bleed 2
-empty slot
-empty slot
Tank 3 buys with his 4 points
-Great Weapons 4
-empty slot
-empty slot
-empty slot
now we have 3 same TANK classes, that are indeed VERY different. Each one used their tactic points to either focus them into 1 line.. or spread them out into multi lines/adjustmet(minor) to their character.
TANK1: would have alot more options going on in terms of what he is doing.. but isn't AS effective in them. still effective, but just not magorly specing into any 1 skill.. and thus has 4 tactis at his disposile
Tank2: went a lil more defenives with a lil more offecive, improveing him blocking to level 2(10%) and improve his bleed(higher DOT damage) so he is still just as affective as the TANK 1.. but in a very different way
TANK3: was like "screw shields" and went total great weapon DPS, and only has his 1 tactic(3 empty slots) but his 1 tactic is level 4.. doing a whopping 20% damage increase with great weapons.
Morale Abilty:
Morale System gets changed totally around. Each morale abilty has a value of 25%,50%, 75%, and 100%. Which is the output the moral abilty gains when put into the set slot.
So if you have a “HEAL” moral abilty, if placed into the 100% slot.. it will heal for 100%.. if placed in the 25% slot.. it will only heal for 25%. This allows the player to have much more freedom in how they want to use what set abilty and where. These moral abilities would be based on the spec line they are located in.
morale should be gained when a player actually does an action.
each abilty, attack, block, dodge, evade, heal, magic spell, would have different values. (i don't think moral should still be gained for a tank "taking damage as his job".. his job is to block, not get hit in the face.
so if the moral bar was 100 points(%).. each attack(skill and such) would have a set value depending on what it is. Support classes would have a higher value point given for a heal then an attack. so it could be something as small as 2 points for an attack, 5 points for a heal.
Morale goes up. you get access to your morale abilties. When you use a morable abilty, you loose morale points depending on the cost of the abilty.
What i would like to see with the morale system.. is do away with these instant mega cast moves.
What should happen is each moral has a 3 second cast time.. during the time a player presses the morale abilty (on top of all the other changes i have suggested), the player has a bubble of immunty, pretty lights glow and such, and the player cast his spell, which has a clear showing that a mega spell is being cast.
For melee abilties.. it should look like a melee abilty.. the player goes into a trance for 3 seconds.. and then performs his "MEGA" attack. it just shouldn't be what we currentl see "a simple wave of damage from Raze" but the warrior actually grapples the target(keeping them in place) and proceeds to violently do his high morale attacks.. (which look like Omnislash from FF7, or any of those attacks from FF7).
That would add some much needed flair to the morale system (yes still on top of all my other changes with morale not being such a constantly used abilty.. but something that is very much earned)
Stat Enhancement Basic:
These are boost to your stats, being it +20 wounds, or +500 hitpoints(advance stats) or +100 tough(expert stats).. these enhancements would also be based on the set style they are located in.
Sweet Linked Abilty:
This is the jont cross-over location between 2 spec lines. Where 2 lines meet to perform some sort of beautfil magic. Where if a player specs equally in 2 set specs, and works his way up to where these are located, having a perfect balance in his character, he gets blessed with a sweet abilty, that is a mixture of both spec lines, being it a awesome moral abilty, or state enhancement, or skill to use great weapons with shield etc etc.
You will also find these types of abilty unlock at the very end of a spec line, to award the player for totally dedecating himself towards his set play style. He would get rewarded with (examples) the abilty to use 2 great weapons at once, to block magical abilities, or a mega finishing move of somesort.. you get the basic idea. It’s the master style for the master player, being the master of his class.
[quote author=Node link=topic=7885.msg80536#msg80536 date=1188248121]
Testpig, it might help to clarify that by 100% on one side and 0% on the other (e.g., Heals), you mean 0% invested spec-wise, and not a complete inability to heal. Seems a reasonable assumption to make out of the gates, but you can be sure someone won't get it.
[/quote]
Based on nodes comment below.
i'm BASING the current diagrams below off of SPECING within a line. EACH CLASS would still have it's BASELINE abilties that SCALE AS YOU LEVEL. so you will at all times be able to PERFORM the CORE of your class. Being it Blocking, attacking, basic healing.. what your class is AT IT'S CORE.
but with SPECING you get to GREATLY improve those skills AND unlock NEW abilties BASED off your spec.
BASE SKILLS would be: Scale as you level
-Single Target Heal
-Group Heal
-Single Target Hot
-Simple Single Target Rez
(the Basics)
The Speced heals would be
-Stronger Single Target Heal
-Stronger Group Heal
-Stronger HoT
-Groupd HoT
-Leaping Heal
-Life Tap
-Aura Heal
-Full single Target Rez
-PBAE instant Rez
Spec Line Balance. Showing how SPEC development should improve the spec line. Pumping more points into 1 spec line over another should make the spec line better. in the current system.. all the spec lines are ALL 100% powerful.
More detailed scale system of how a tri-spec class would work with it's spec tri option.
Giving the option to develope 3 set lines a certain way. (i based the scale off of a 200%, but of course it should be much less.. so that a player cannot spec 100% into 2 lines at all.., but for diagram purposes it makes it easier to understand )
Class Balance. The basic idea of paper rock scissors. Meaning something is always able to beat something else, no one is ever king of the mountain, top of the foodchain. Everyone has a counter balance.
Here I will list out each Class type, and list a counter balance for it, and reason why. Also abilities that are needed in the game to bring more balance to somethings to fuction better.
CASTER DPS: What is strong and weak vrs casters.
-Tanks Shield (can’t block magic)
-Tanks Great weapons (can’t block magic)
-Caster DPS: (can’t block magic, but also the counter to Casters DPS)
-Projectile DPS (can’t block magic, but also the counter to Casters DPS)
-Melee DPS (can’t block magic, but also the counter to Caster DPS) This class needs a ‘baseline’ charge type abilty that allows it to be immued to magical snares/damage for a set prd of time, aswell as have a movement increase to close the gap towards the casters.
PROJECTILE DPS: What is strong and weak vrs casters.
-Tanks Great weapon (not shield, so can’t block the projectiles)
-Tanks Shield(Very strong vrs Projectile DPS, can block 75% of all the attacks aslong as he is arc/facing the target)
-Caster DPS(can’t block projectiles, but also the counter to projectile DPS)
-Projectile DPS (can’t block projectiles, but also the counter to projectile DPS)
-Melee DPS (can’t block projectiles)
Melee DPS: What is strong and weak vrs casters, (requires Charge type abilty)
-Tanks Great weapon: no shield to counter the double weapons of melee DPS
-Tanks SHIELD: very weak towards them, can’t get past the defence
-Caster DPS: immunity towards magic with charge
-Projectile DPS: Can cut them appear if the gap is closed. Projectile Snares ignore charges magical immunity
-Melee DPS: slaughter each other
Tanks SHIELD: baseline Instant throw Weapon that snares when hits target in the back/side
-Tanks Great weapon: Really hurt Shield Tanks
-Tanks SHIELD: cancel each other out (longiest battle in the history of all battles)
-Caster DPS: kills tanks.
-Projectile DPS: Tanks can basiclly ignore their damage, and crawl to them to engaged
Tanks Great Weapon: Baseline instant throw weapon that snares when hits target in the back/side
-Tanks Shield: very weak towards great weapon
-Tanks Great weap: slaughter each other
-Melee DPS: hurt great weapon tanks
-Caster DPS: kills great weap tanks
-Projectile DPS: kills great weap tanks.
Simple abilities that need to be added are instant throw weapon snare, and charge immunity.
Follow link Below for: RvR focusing on RvR and group dynamics
in the RvR post, i will dive into CD, Group dynmaics, Goal based RvR..
http://forums.eamythic.com/index.php?topic=9531.0
Public Quest thread is here, focusing on RvR PQ's, MOBS, BOSS's
http://forums.eamythic.com/index.php?topic=9656.0
For Starters I’ll open by my stating, I LOVE Realm vrs Realm combat, the 1v1 PvP aspect doesn’t really gear towards me, it’s still has strong value in the big picture, but I’m strongly geared towards Team Work to complete a given task/goal.
Also I’d like to state, that I’m more in favor of Open Field Skirmishes, battling over objectives then scenarios matches(I seem them as having a place, but I don’t feel they should be the most important factor in WAR’s Realm vrs Realms features).
Lets take a view at the types of Realm vrs Realm War offers, and Break them down in how they might be improved.
Skirmishes: Incidental PvP combat
Battlefields: Objective-based battles in the game world
Scenarios: Instanced, point-based Battles Balanced with NPC dogs of war
Campaigns: The invasions of enemy lands culminating in assault on their capital city.
Looks like a strong solid list of 4 epic RvR options in war. Well it’s really just 2. Battlesfields and Scenarios.
I like Battlefields, so I’ll dive into that first.
BATTLEFIELDS: The open world of RVR combat/zones. Battling over Objectives that have value other then RP farming. Based on the Tier zone level, will determine how complex the RvR zone is, aswell as location and number of objectives needed to “control” the area.
Objectives Could be things as simple as a Farm, or a Mine. But whats the point of such objectives? What does the realm gain? What does the player gain? Currently. Not much. Objectives Should offer 1 way quest, that give a coin/exp/or renown reward when completed. (accept quest by looting chest, bring items in chest back to warcamp, get rewarded). Very simple, but enough to feel a reason to capture such objective. The quest should also be repeatable for aslong as the realm controls such objective(diminishing returns of course, or reward can be a random, of xp, or, coin, or renown, or item) so you never know exactly what you will get.
On top of the direct reward the player gets, the REALM itself should be rewarded aswell. If not for the sub-objective, then atleast for the MAIN objective(which would be the center keep/tower). That tower control would give all TIER 1 players a global enhancement, be it 5% more XP, or 5% more coin drop, but something that helps the realm overall.
Now that we got some of the basic NEEDS of rvr out of the way, lets break down RvR to make it more meaningful, and engaging instead of just gatecamping. In the above Sample Tier1 RvR image. You see a basic set up of how RvR should work. You have linked lands, that you must control before you can control the next land over. So Realm1, will need to capture and hold the objective 1, in order to advance to the center objective. But being that tier 1 is the simple learning RvR, it’s pretty straight forward. Each realm will be driving towards each other, and the focus battle will be in/around the center tower/keep.
SEIGE:
Yes I love Siege, I loved the Seige concepts of DAOC, but it did restrict many players into being ram bots. So in order to solve this issue, Siege equipment is totally automated. A player would talk to an NPC in the Objective bases and order that NPC to start moving the siege weapon. Players will need to escort the Siege engine towards the keep, and it will begin taking down the doors and such autmaticlly.
The defending realm will be able to destroy the siege engine, and stop it from advancing by killing the escorting players. If the siege engine remains destoried for a set amount of time, it will vanish and respawn back at the basic objective base.
Players can repair the siege engine by just clicking on it for about 30 seconds or so, to get it moving again. Capture the tower, by placing the flag on the tower unintruped for 60 seconds. (Think the FPS enemy Terrirtory, where you would have a moving objective as the focus of an early stage in the match to let you get into the enemies base)
(respawn points are outside the combat circle/not within the tower/keeps/objectives)
View Tier 2 Battle Field
This gives you a more indepth idea of how advancing in Tier advances the complex RvR battlefield. Same idea of tier 1 RvR, but more objectives to fight over, and more Keeps to hold. Even a center path that connects the keeps to have another form of engagment.
You can possibly also get a feel for the type of linked battle from Tier 2. (think Risk, the game of world domination). Attacking linked lands. Controling and holding. And trying to “cut off” the chain of land control of the other realm. With the higher tier you get more strategic options. Like cutting off the linked lands. Which will automatically start the lands which are no longer connected to the realms Warcamp to slowly start to loose control(UNLESS of course the objective has players of that given realm defending within it), thus allowing a realm to still HOLD a objective even if they are no longer linked. But once they leave the grounds of that objective, it will start to diminish.
That the basics of RvR openfield.
Scenarios: Instance RvR
These are just games to me, capture the flag, 6v6 arena battles, Nothing that should really define the realm other then rewarding the players within it with renown points. It’s such a private area, that a player can’t just run in and out of, thus should not really be the overall focus of what drives the realm to victory. Perhaps someone that is a strong supporter of Scenarios can provide some content on them. I never liked them in WoW, and I don’t like them in War.
Realm Vrs Realm, is Team vrs Team, Groups vrs Groups. How do we promote More teamwork, More group Dynamics, how do we promote players to accept and desire any class into their group,? RvR/PvE tend to aquire different classes for the reasoning that we all know. A PvE group would take a healer, a caster, and a bunch of Tanks/Melee DPS just to slaughter all the High level PvE mobs. And that’s great, group dynamics seem to be very balanced when it comes to PvE, almost every class can provide something to the group and feel useful.
But once we take that same dynamic and try to transfer it into the PvP(RvR) aspect of the game, it just falls apart, groups tend to funnel towards classes which will have the most possible and fastest damage output, Casters DPS, Ranged DPS, and even Melee DPS. Classes such as Tanks find themselves unwelcome. And also how these Games tend to work that Range > Melee, why would anyone take a class that they will have to constantly feed heals to? That is just a leech of action points to try to keep alive?
So with that said, I want to propose an idea to promote grouping, aswell as promote having classes that you might feel don’t really bring anything to the table when they are in the mix. I would like it if, each class once groups would have an automatic AURA effect activated(passive abilty) that improves the groups overall effectiveness in some way or another. Also if you have 2 of that set class in your group, or 3, 4, 5, or even if your entire group is all of 1 set class. Each will will a different passive enhancement to the group.
I’ll make a list based of TANKS, because well, I have a soft spot in my heart for them.
If your group has:
1 TANK: you will gain +5% Toughness
2 TANK: you will gain Above + 5%wounds
3 TANK: you will gain Above + 5% AP regen
4 TANK: you will gain Above + 5% Str
5 TANK: you will gain Above + 5% damage output
6 TANK: you will gain Above + Increased Heal over time while in combat
Of course each class type would offer Enhancments based off their class type, so tanks offer Tank like enhancements.
This I belieave would be a great way to promote inviting any class into your group.
Collusion Detection: Player Size, Melee Range, and basic CD.
If a players model is bigger (black orc, chosen) they should have a much large CD box, aswell as much larger range with their weapons based off the size od their CD box. CD is important to the group dynamic because CD can be used as a HUGE part of RvR aswell as PvE.
On top of that, I also feel Classes such as the Chosen, and the Blackorc (heck all TANK classes) should have a much slower timer on all their styles, but each style should have a large swinging arc and hit multi targets at once, aswell as increased damage. I don’t want the tank to be a frontloader single target class like a Melee DPS, but it should be a class that swing it’s huge weapon around, hitting anything around it. Would make Tank classes something to fear, instead of something that just bothers and nips at your knees.
Having Tanks play the roll of Tanks, blocking doorways, blocking stairwells, Standing in a line, holding back the enemy forces, as the range casters and projectile players rain hell from afar.
Below is how I feel combat should basiclly look like in overhead football type View.
Most of the melee classes are engaged in the center of the battle. Tank classes defending melee DPS class from ranged DPS, and Melee DPS. Support classes healing the Tanks. Caster DPS classes Atttacking the Tanks. Outskirt Tanks engaging Ranged DPS. Melee DPS classes attemping to “Charge” a caster, but get blocked by 2 CD TANKS. Ranged DPS classes sneaking around behind, and sniping down the support classes. You have classes focusing there attacks on classes they know are weak towards them. And to counter that, you have classes supporting those weaker classes in different ways. Being it Defending abilities, or CD, or just heals, or sniping.
In the current build, you just have any old range class destroying all the melee classes, and that’s just shouldn’t be. It’s not balanced, and demoralizes the playerbase from building Melee DPS / Tank classes.
The current Map/layout design seems off in how it brings 2 different races to engage each other of equal level. The only Chapters that are seem to be paired properly against each other is Chapter 3 of the Dwarfs, and Chapter 3 of the Greenskins. And chapter 6/7 of Greenskin/Dwarf Every other chapter pairing per zone throws a much different level range against each other. Even if it’s only by 4 levels or so, it’s still enough that will cause players not to engage in RvR until they have reached the “top notch” level in their RvR Tier. But it goes more indepth then just the pairing placement.. it’s also the placement on the maps. That a player needs to travel across and besides a player of the enemy realm, and can only engage in combat in the “set RvR zone”. That just doesn’t sit well with me in WAR.
Above is how I think WAR should work. Each chapter is nearly directly across from the opposing realms chapter (chapter 1 vrs chapter 1, chapter 4 vrs chapter 4 etc etc). Each Tier Zone would act as 1 large/long plain of land. Divided into 5 main sections.
2 PvE Race Specfic Always SAFE PvE zones (players for the enemy realm can in no way ever enter these lands. They are 100% safe, the only entrance would be via Chapter Cities, and also heavily guarded boarder patrol. No Enemy players should ever be able to make it over the wall to grief anyone(killing player mobs etc etc), That zone is the WHITE zone. IT’s cut into 3 Chapters, and has many quest camps scattered within it.
The next 2 Zones(orange) would be the PvE/RvR Zone.. for players that want that extras risk, and be rewarded for it. Quest in these zones would come mainly from the QUEST camps. These quest camps are guarded by NPC’s and have NPC’s boss within it. It’s not a simple task to claim one of these quest camps, would need atleast 2 groups working togther. Quest camps are also scaled for the Chapter it rest within. So a group or 2 of chapter 1 players would be able to capture one of these Quest Camps. Each Race also automatically starts off with their own Quest Camps. You only really need to capture the enemy quest camps.
If your realms quest camp is captured, the other realm will have access to some of the quest within it, escort quest mostly and looting quest (raiding the village, or freeing prisoners). When your Realms Quest Camp is captured, Guards from your Realms Chapter City will start to rally troops outside the Chapter city, and once they reach a set amount of guards (15+1 boss, 3 rows of 5) they will begin to march out towards the Quest camp, and attempt to reclaim it. If they fail.. they will rally up again adding 5 more troops outside the chapter city, and march towards the quest game again.
Also in these Zones, you have many PvE quest, and a many RvR quest, the PvE quest would be just like any other PvE quest, in terms of challenge, and story, the only difference is you can be attacked by an enemy player. Of course the XP reward would be increased and possibly Renown. Don’t worry about those players that much, these Areas are also patrolled (via Roads) by guards. SO you can still run to your near by guards for help, and they will assist(but they will still be killable, nothing is god mode in these lands)
In these Areas you will also find the RvR PQ’s (see post RvR Revamped in sig). Ways to engage the players over a set objective with an RvR twist.
The 5th area in this zone is the constant RvR live area. NO NPCS, nothing but player vrs player, realm vrs realm combat over the main objectives placed within the land (see RvR revamped post for more details).
I belieave if the map/land layouts goes more along these lines, we might have a more fullfilly game that really bring the idea of WAR into our hearts.
I heard the phrased “There is no dancing In War”. Well, I need to ask, where is the war in WAR?
EDIT: Added an Overlay option to get a stronger feeling how the map can still work with the land textures
-Public Quest that benefit from the participation of the entire army.
-Conflict quest that pit players against an enemy with opposing goals.
The Public Quest, the great new concept mythic has created to tone down the feeling of “grinding” away on countless mobs to gain XP and level up in the Warhammer world. But there is just something about these public quest that don’t define them as such a stand along strong feature. Yes the idea at it’s core is great. But why stop where it is? Why not take the PQ to the next possible level? For years I have played video games, and many many times, I find myself sitting there, and thinking “they could have really done more with this”. So with PQ’s that’s where I find myself. I thank the lords of Mythic that I am in the beta so I can actually help in the process of trying to build a perfect or atleast near perfect game. That I can just waste the rest of my life on.(ha).. So with all that said. Lets get into Public Quest.
First things first, keep in mind I’m using the PQ concept as the core, and simply adding to and mixing things up abit, also, re-working some of the overall ideas of the PQ. Under the idea I’m pushing, I’m breaking PQ’s up into 4 types of Public Quest.
-RvR Public Quest
-Large Scale Public Quest
-Medium Scale Public Quest
-Small Scale Public Quest
•Realm Vrs Realm Public Quest:
These are Public quest that are also RvR areas, These can vary in size and scale.. but should be somewhat small, to keep the battle close and focus into 1 solid area. These PQ’s would have a strong mixture of friendly NPC’s and Enemy player targets to overcome to advance in the PQ. While these PQ’s are mostly RvR based, they really wont have a “BOSS”(boss section down below on the new boss designs). But more so an objective which gets claimed.
A good example of a RvR PQ area would be the early stage PQ in mount Bloodhorn, where the greenskins are required to kill 100 dwarfs, and the stunies are required to kill 100 Greenskins. This is already screaming to become an RvR engagment. First off (lesson the numberes overall on these PQ’s stage 1’s should not be so drastic, there should never be a requirment of killing 100 of anything, should be 25-50 at most, with that said..) So stage 1 requires to kill 50 Dwarfs(I’m coming from a greenskin point of view), and us greenskins do so, killing a mixture of NPC dwarfs, and dwarf players. Stage 2 now begins for us, which would be “Push Forward, and set the Dwarven Buildings on Fire”.. the Dwarfs will now be in stage 2 of “Defend your Buildings, put out the flames!”… Finaly Stage 3 would come around after all the buildings have been set ablaze, which would be something along the lines of “set your flag in the center of the battle, and become the king of the hill (for a set time). The dwarfs would be on stage 3 of “reclaim the center of battle, and destroy the greenskin flag”.. etc.
If however the Dwarfs then stop the greenskins flag, and destroy it, they then drop down to stage 2, which requires them to set the enemy town ablaze. And so on and so on and so on. Perfect Small scale RvR PQ’s. Of course this is just an example as to what can be.
•Large Scale PQ’s & Medium Scaled PQ’s
Basiclly the same thing, just the amount of kills varies from one to the next, also the complexed objectives varry based on the overall size. And of course, the Challenge of the end BOSS would varry based on size. (I’m really excited for the new boss concepts down below!)
•Small Scale PQ’s
This is something I’m really hoping for. A public Quest that 1 or 2 players can complete all alone. I’m talking VERY small scale. These would be PQ’s located in each and every single Cave in the game. Or at those random points of intrest that are viewed way off into the distance. Open your imagination for a moment to see what I see in my head.
In the distance I see a the shape of a large Building towering above the tree line in. I travel the off the main road, into a land that I have no quest in, I have no real reason to go into this direction, but that tower.. that tower must have some importance to it. I arrive at the tower to discover nothing.. nothing at all but useless NPC’s. That’s how it currently is in the game. However, I have something different in mind, That tower can offer so much more. Instead of just more random NPC;s to kill for no reason othen they being in my way. Give me reason on the spot. A new SMALL scale PQ!
Stage 1 “you have discovered the darken tower, Kill 5 guards patrolling the tower”
Stage 2 “Destory the Towers door, watch out for Patrols!”
Stage 3 “Enter the tower and kill the 4 mages which have poisoned the lands!”
Stage 4 “Kill the tower Lord! And remove his head!”(tower lord would be a “special” non-boss mob. You then get a nice XP reward, and can loot a few chest for cash reward from the tower itself.
It would be a quick fun rewarding lil quest, that can then open up larger quest in town after you return the head to the local “headhunter” npc.
The same idea can work for those random caves we tend to ignore because there is no reason to go into them unless for if we by chance have a quest for them.
Stage 1” kill 5 spiders”
Stage 2” find and kill the 5 spider eggs”
Stage 3” The Queen of the spiders has return to the lair, Slay her before it’s to late!”
Etc etc. Simple, straight forwad, rewarding.
Now for what will make Medium PQ’s and Large Scale PQ’s exciting.
Lets start with a basic view of what the current Build has for Mobs/Specials/Bosses. Currently the only thing that defines these 3 types of mobs as different is the amount of hitpoints they have or the amount of damage they deal.. Nothing really defines a boss as a boss or a special mob as a special mob. Bosses act/react/feel/look exactly like normal mobs. (this is something DAOC suffered in aswell)
So lets just list adjustments to make MOBS feel more like MOBS and for players to feel more like a Hero.
MOBS:
-Makes mobs have A LOT less hitpoints. So that we just cut through them like butter. I should not have to use over 2000Ap , a moral ablity, and 4 full PvE focus tactics to kill 1 simple mob. I should be able to cut these simple equally level mobs apart. Heck increase the number of mobs in the area, I just want to cut them apart, to be surrounded, and hacking away, kicking some down to the ground, and crushing skulls.
SPECIAL MOBS:
-They Should be rare. Random mobs that you NEED to use your morale abilities on, that you need to really worry about, that you think to yourself “should I engage him alone?” Special mobs should perform styles, have a nice pool of hitpoints, and generally give you a run for your money. But also reward you nicely when you slay them
BOSS MOBS:
This is what needs a Major overhaul. BOSS mobs are currently just stronger normal mobs with no flair. No real thought process goes into defeating it other then “ok just hit it over and over again”. We should Bring BOSS mobs back to the concept of Video games. MegaMan, Strider, Ninja Gaiden, Metroid, FF3, Metal Gear Solid, Devil May Cry, etc etc. Games that the bosses were something MORE then just attacking at it to win.. Bosses that would react based on your actions towards it. That would have “Weak Spots” and “paterns” that you memorize in order to survive.
With that I introduce Basic BOSS mob1
BOSS mob 1. Your basic Melee Type boss, comes equip with highe melee damage, and high fast pace aggression. Has 2 points of intrest for targeting to attack. The weapon, and the Boss itself. You really get to pick which you want to lay waste too, but dealing damage to one will affect the other. The bosses actions will very much be in response to where his current Life is at.
Boss at 75-100% life.. you have him being pretty confident.. strutting around, Attacking players normally, and having a few set “styled” attacls
-Raises axe high into the sky, holds it for a few seconds, says some words, and smashes the axe down into a marked area on the floor. These types of attacks you see coming, thus you can manually Dodge/avoid them. When his axe is pluged into the ground, you can then target the axe, to begin to attack it.. Targeting his weapon will decrease his overall damage.
Boss at 50-75% life.. His a lil worried, so now he starts his next wave of attack, which he hold his axe around behind his back for a second, says some key words, and begins to spin spin spin all over the place (PBAE typpe damage), again something you can dodge manually… After this set attack the BOSS finds himself dizzy, and open attacks towards his axe and body
Boss at 25-50% life.. Now the boss is worried, he starts to call for help, mixing his attacks between the axe drop, and the spin.
Boss at 1-25% life.. the Boss is really enraged, and deeply concerned with his life… he calls for more help from NPC’s, and now has a NEW attack in his pocket, where he jumps into the air, and smashes down near all those dealing the most damage to him, stunning them, and then performing his PBAE spin attack in rage mode.. cuasing him NOT to become dizzy afterwards. Everything is all on the line at this point. His finally at 1% life, and drops his axe.. now is the time to slay the boss. You rightclick the AXE, pick it up, and swing it down on the bosses skull.. VICTORY. Boss from PQ1 is destoried.
(now you say.. what if I destoried his axe earlier?, the answer to that is, the axe would have been dropped sooner, and you would be able to lay down some major damage towards the BOSS)
INTROUDCING BOSS 2
I wont need to go into such details as I did with boss one, because now you have the basic idea as to how bosses should/could work. I’ll just point out examples of what else can be done. Like having a target point be the legs of the “HUGE GIANT BOSS”, which would a: slow down the movement of the giant, and B: randomly bring him down to his knees so you can laydown some harder damage with the boss being weakened.
This is what I WISH and DREAM and HOPE to dear mythic god, we do the enhance the PVE in this game. Normal Mobs are normal everyday mindless mobs. Just like the good ole Table Top games of D&D when your DM would just have you randomly encounter basic goblins walking around.. a quick kill.. But when it came to the named BOSS mob of the TT adventure.. the battle would take hours, and you would have to figure out the “key way” to get past the bosses shield by using the krystal you were found with when dropped off as a child in front of the church.
PQ REWARDS (newly added)
Currently you do ALOT of work for very little reward in the big picture of PQ's and Inf. So Lets change it up a tad.
We remove the current PQ quest rewards, and stick those items into a INF Vendor. that vender using Inf to purchase Items/Weapons/Armor sets of all type and kind. each item scaling with some pretty nice inf cost.. (which will cuase the player to hang around and do more PQ's in the area.)
Now as for Inf Stage rewards.. as you go from basic/advance/expert.. the rewards will totally change from Items, to abilties/tactics/morales/stat enhancements. These tactics and skills can be simple, such as increase the ammount of INF you get per kill.. or DO EXTRA damage to bosses. etc etc. Something that might be purely a PvE Tactic.. some can even just be as on par as our standard tactic.
Last edited by Bulor on Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Well here we are again. We find ourselves constantly coming back to this topic of “the spec tree”, “customization”, “and individualism”. And we constantly find ourselves in the dark as to what Mythic plans to do. However many of us have already long accepted that mythic will not add a spec tree (prays some game dev company will pick up and use the HEX system). So what do we do now that mythic won’t flush their old system for a new? Try to use the pieces of the puzzle they left scattered on the floor, and try to rebuild them into something that might work.
I’ll Warn you all now, my ideas may be a tad radical, and some of you will call me a heretic, but I feel they can add something to the game. Any who, Lets dive into it shall we?
As always I based my Spec tree around the tank/blackorc, an archetype I have a deep love for. The concept at its core can be applied to any archetype in order to better the game. But for now, I’ll just focus on the Black orc.. And later on, on weapon types for multi users.
SPEC TREES or ABILITY LIST.
Being that spec trees are no longer an option, we will have to find another way to solve for the lack of spec options. Which I believe I have come up with a possible solution which will have one black orc, be different enough then another black orc besides him. But that will come into the light in the Tactics and Weapon Section.
Warhammer Online offers each class the means of acquiring every ability they will have from level 1-40, each ability scaling with you as you level, which means you don’t really notice any changes with each ability. Also leads to blandness, and the feeling that you’re not really growing as a char. On top of that… you constantly feel as if you don’t have any real options or features on your player, and tend to rely on morale abilities for the most part of your attacks.
We need to Do away with this feature. And collapse those 40 levels of abilities( Avg 20 total abilities spread over 40 levels).. and smash them down into each tier.. So that each tier itself gets about 15 abilities, then every tier after that would have an ‘special’ ability that was not offered in the previous tier. Now I’m not saying the game will have 80 totally different abilities per class.. Heck no! it would still have the 20. But each tier as you level, you can purchase the newer higher versions of that set ability from the trainer at the set level of which it is allowed. Lets break it down into a visual.
Clobber: Builder: a Basic Melee Attack
Clobber will forever be clobber in the current build of the beta. And this is just not attractive. It’s fine and good for tier 1, clobber is clobber, great. You acquire it at level 1, and you use it until level 40. Boring. It scales as you level, shows no real improvements. Makes you feel as if weapons don’t really matter.
Now lets change clobber, Lets have it so that it doesn’t scale as you level. And totally relies on a few factors of your character.
-Version of Ability
-Weapon DPS
-STR
-Weapon Skill
With that idea tossed down, we can then reclac how clobber works..
Level1 Clobber T1: DPS + STR + Weapon Skill = Clobber Damage
Level 11Clobber T2: +3% Dam(Clobber T2 Enhancement) + DPS + STR + Weapon Skill = Clobber Damage.
Level 21 Clobber T3: +6% Dam + STR + Weapon Skill = Clobber Damage
Level 31 Clobber T4: +9% Dam + STR + Weapon Skill = Clobber Damage
With this type of unscaling set up, players will strongly rely on weapons as they level, Right now, weapons don’t feel as they matter much. The basic Chart Below would also tack on whatever Tactics you have active and upgraded on your character.
[table][tr][td]
*
Clobber
Lob Choppa
Trip em Up
Right in the Jib
Da Challenge
Friggin Roar(nostack)
Save Runts
Shut yer Face
Toughen up
Savin hide
Can’t Stop Waa
Git off
Down ya go
Rock Ard
Where you goin
Arm Breaka
Outta My Way
Da Big Un
Engage*
[/td][td]Tier 1(1—11)
L1: DPS+STR+WS
L2: 20% snare/rear
L3: DPS+STR+WS = DOT+35% snare
L5:ARM+STR+intrupt
L6: Taunt 30Sec
L3: 10Secs 10% debuf
L7:
L8:
L4:
L9:
L10:
L6:
L11:
L5:
*
*
*
L11:
L9:
[/td][td]Tier 2(12-21)
L12:3%+DPS+STR+WS
*
L14: DPS+STR+WS = DOT+45%snare+5secs
L16: ARM+STR+1s Stun
*
L14: 15sec 20%debuf
L18:
L19:
L15:
L20:
*
L17:
L20:
L16:
*
L20:
L13:
L21:
[/td][td]Tier 3(22-31)
L22:6%+DPS+STR+WS
*
L24: DPS+STR+WS = DOT+55%snare+10secs
L26: ARM+STR+2s Stun
L27: Tuant 60sec + -10%dam
L24: 20sec 30%debuf
L28:
L29:
L25:
L30:
*
L27:
L30:
L26:
L29:
L30:
L23:
L31:
[/td][td]Tier 4(32-40)
L32:9%+DPS+STR+WS
L32: 40%snare/rear
L34: DPS+STR+WS = DOT+65%snare+15secs
L36: ARM+STR+3s Stun
*
L34: 25sec 40%debuf
L38:
L39:
L35:
L39:
L32:
L37:
L40:
L36:
L38:
L39:
L33:
L40:
[/td][/tr][/table]
I’ll fill in the rest later. But one should get the basic idea as to how a skill can improve per tier. Giving the player a Sence of real growth and gain throughout the characters progression. Some players might even not buy some skills that they simply do not use. Some might buy every possible skill Just incase. But with that type of set up, we at least FEEL our ability improve. Via longer durations, more damage, better crit rates etc etc etc.
That Should solve the issue with character progression. Now lets dive into a simple way to fix the Tactic System.
This can’t be any easier. First and foremost, Make all tactics at their core, useful, and with the means of growing.
Each Tactic will have 4 levels. The first level of the tactic is already unlocked when you purchase the tactic.
For this example.. we will use a Shield Tactic.
L1: +5% blocking
L2: +5% blocking(10% in total)
L3: +5% blocking(15% in total)
L4: +5% blocking(20% in total)
A player from level 5-40 has access to select up to 18 tactics out of a list of 30, every level(after level 5 and up) a player will gain 1 Tactic Development Point. Which can be used to increase the level of a tactic. Be it a shield tactic, a HoT tactic, or a Great weapon Tactic.. whatever the tactic is.. it will increase %5 for each point used on it. A player should be able to max out about 9 Tactics out of the 18 he selects from with this method. Which in turn should give a pretty good variation on Spec from one black or to another black orc.
Now Finally the last piece of the puzzle, the last adjustment that would make everything just fall into place. And that’s Getting the spec out of the weapons the player is using. Yes, in theory it seems a lil weird, how is someone supposed to define their spec by the weapon they choose to use? Well on top of the tactics you already have chosen prior, and your playstyle, you will have weapons that each provide a set way of attacks/use/damage/enhancements. So let us now introduce WEAPONS SPECS!
Lets think about our weapon types.. We have Great Weapons(2handers), normal weapons (1handers that work with shields), projectile weapons (guns and bows), wands, staffs, and shields.
First, Each melee weapon type (hammer/axe/sword) Needs to have it’s own set characteristic. They need more depth then just the graphical different and racial restrictions they currently have.
These are Baseline core characteristics all weapons of a set type would have across the board. No matter what level the weapon is.. at it’s core.. these are the enhancements each weapon should get(depending on type).
SWORDS: Bleed Proc (3% 1hander, 9% great weap)
HAMMER: Knockdown(3%1hander, 9%great weap)
AXE: Crit ( 3% 1hander, 9%great weap)
SPEAR: Knockback(3%1hander, 9% great weap)
That is the core, the basics of each weapon, small enhancements each weapon will provide on top of which ever tactic is being used, as well as which ability is being used along side the weapon.
GREATWEAPONS, (2handed weapons)
Great Weapons offer an increased range over the normal 1handed weapon/shield. A player gives us his ability to defend in order to take up an offensive means of attack. Each great weapon type would not only offer what it’s weapon class offers, but also offer a different type of range on each attack, and radius of each attack (be it a finisher or a builder, each can be defined based on the weapon being used).
In the Graph above you see how using a different weapon type can offer a differt type of attack damage being dealt to you surroundings with a great weapon. PBAE, COE, TAOE, and FCOE..
G.Ham: PBAE(point blank Area Efftect)(swinging the massive hammer around overhead) Damage being greater from the center point out. Adding a 9% chance of knockdown.
G.Sword: COE(Cone of Effect)(taking a swing with the great sword) Damage being greater from the center point out. Adding a 9% chance of bleed.
G.Axe: TAOE(Target Area of Effect), having each add around the center target take the full damage as the center target, as well as an increase chance to crit.
G.Spear: FCOE(focus Cone of Effect) a much longer ranged weapon, which has a 9% chance to knock a target back to 12feet(max spear range) keeping the target at bay using the spears range as an advantage point.
How and when are these weapons used with such powerful addons? You need to take into consideration what a user is giving up when using a great weapon. Defense is gone(I’ll get to shields later within the post).
Lets create a lil example of when the great weapons will fire it’s huge AOE/COE addons.
Black orc is using a Great Sword(CoE 6ft), and he attacks with his clobber style. The attack will be COE.. but the only target taking any REAL damage would be whoever he has targeted directly. Everyone else within the 6th feet will just take slight splash damage.
However, if the black orc uses a Finsisher like Trip them up, it would have the full effect of Trip them up, in terms of damage and duration to all that are within the CoE(fall off damage for those hat are further from the center point of course).
These Great Weapons will also tack on delays in reuse timers for abilities.
NORMAL WEAPONS(1 handers with shields)
The core of these weapons will still have what the baseroot skill of the weapons are. (knockdowns/knockbacks/bleeds/crits) The shields will offer better defense of self and teammates/a balance of both/weapon haste.. all depending on the size of the shield.
A Small shield would increase the haste rating of the 1handed weapon but give you less defense vrs Projectile missiles(arrows and bullets).
The Medium Shield would offer a solid balance between weapon speed, and defense(sort of like what we have now, being able to protect yourself + 1 target) And giving you solid defense vs. projectile missiles.
The tower shield would offer amazing protection, but at a major cost.. Your haste rating will be greatly reduced, but in turn, you can block almost all projectile missiles (arrows and bullets) and even reduce magic damage by 50%! as well as protect more then 1 ally at a time.(max 3).
GUNS GUNS GUNS! projectile projectile projectile!
Why not offer Guns/bows with a lil more depth. Depending on if it's a handgun/shotgun/rifle/great sniper/Great gattling/Great nade laucher
Each gun type would offer specfic increases/decreases in range damage/crit ratio/splash damage etc etc.
Handgun: Short range 50 feet
Shotgun: very short range 25feet (COE damage)
Rifle: long range 75 feet
Great Rifle(sniper): 100 feet (high damage, very slow fire rate, high crit rate, single target)
Great Gattling: 25 feet ( Moderate damage, Very very fast fire rate, CoE)
Great Nade: 50feet ( High Danage, slow fire rate, AOE damage)
This provides guns with a very different playstyle.
OVERALL the game needs longer REUSE TIMERS.
Each ability needs to have a reuse timer before it can be used again, but only 1 second cooldown timer between different attack abilities. So clobber would have a baseline of 3 second cool down.(then depending on what weapon you use with it and or if you have a shield equiped or not.) So if your swinging a shortsword with a medium shield, you have a 3 sec reuse timer on it. If you have a smallshield, you would have a 1 second reuse timer on it. if you have a large shield, it would be a 5 second reuse timer. Finishers would have a reuse timer all there own on top of the prereq combo points.
This would just give players time to think, and time to actually use another ability besides clobber. you will see players finding the time and the use to toss in a Friggern Roar while he waits for clobber to be active again.
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
as you guys can see.. i pretty much hate the current state of warhammer online, and have thrive to redesign every aspect of the game.
with the 2 months of downtime coming, i figured i'd let the DoGs know whats up.
with the 2 months of downtime coming, i figured i'd let the DoGs know whats up.
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
barbos wrote:wow... very detailed... lots of text
yea in the beta, i was one of the pioneers on how the game sucked as a whole, and when i had mono, and was on about 30 different meds, my mind opened up, and i was able to redesign the entire game.
and come up with 2 systems of class spec which were both original and more indepth then what mythic had currently in the build.
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
well, i haven't been posting on the beta boards for a bit.. but i think they have been talking about me in the warhammer offices, and concider me a heretic.
i just got an e-mail from the game devs today...
----------------------
Hello Testpig,
We realize you are a very enthusiastic and passionate tester and it excites us to see the amount of effort you put into the feedback you give us. However, we request that you recognize many of the systems currently in the game will not change radically, nor will they adopt much of the systems you proposed.
This is not to say they're bad systems at all, they simply don't fit into the scope of our game. Please keep posts focused on the current direction of the game, we feel you can be a true asset to this beta test, however, we need to work together with the systems that are available and not try to reinvent the game.
Please let me know if you have any questions, thank you and have a great day.
-------------------------
i just got an e-mail from the game devs today...
----------------------
Hello Testpig,
We realize you are a very enthusiastic and passionate tester and it excites us to see the amount of effort you put into the feedback you give us. However, we request that you recognize many of the systems currently in the game will not change radically, nor will they adopt much of the systems you proposed.
This is not to say they're bad systems at all, they simply don't fit into the scope of our game. Please keep posts focused on the current direction of the game, we feel you can be a true asset to this beta test, however, we need to work together with the systems that are available and not try to reinvent the game.
Please let me know if you have any questions, thank you and have a great day.
-------------------------
Last edited by Bulor on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
wow! i'm honored to actually get a direct message from you guys!
I'm really just waiting and hoping to see what comes in decemeber.
Even if Warhammer just adjusted the tactics, so that you can improve 1 tactic moreso over another tactic, it would be a great and welcomed change.
I'll do my best to try to stay within the same frame of the game when the beta opens it's doors once again.
-testpig
---------------------------
Thank you for your understanding,
I am also going to remove your signature due to it linking to archived messages. Please also avoid posting these threads when we relaunch and base your assessments on the scope of the game at that time.
We really appreciate the amount of dedication and effort you put into your feedback we just wish it could be used in a more constructive manner consistently. Thank you for your contributions and as always let me know if you have any questions
-----------------------------
they have taken my freedom of speech away.
I'm really just waiting and hoping to see what comes in decemeber.
Even if Warhammer just adjusted the tactics, so that you can improve 1 tactic moreso over another tactic, it would be a great and welcomed change.
I'll do my best to try to stay within the same frame of the game when the beta opens it's doors once again.
-testpig
---------------------------
Thank you for your understanding,
I am also going to remove your signature due to it linking to archived messages. Please also avoid posting these threads when we relaunch and base your assessments on the scope of the game at that time.
We really appreciate the amount of dedication and effort you put into your feedback we just wish it could be used in a more constructive manner consistently. Thank you for your contributions and as always let me know if you have any questions
-----------------------------
they have taken my freedom of speech away.
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
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