New armor tier for the new PvE dungeon

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Sirion
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New armor tier for the new PvE dungeon

Postby Sirion » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:09 am

Well, it looks like ArenaNet is renigging on the "you don't have to do dungeons to get the best gear" concept, and is putting in some kind of progression. This could have multiple impacts on how the games goes from here which could either be good or bad.

First, we might as well wait until next week to do our monthly dungeon runs, since we're going to want a shot at the best gear we can get while we do them anyways to mitigate the amount of time spent away from WvW. Second, this new notion of progression may eventually trickle over to WvW, which means there may end up being carrots to follow after all.

Now personally, I don't know how I feel about this situation because I don't particularly care for the dungeons in this game, but I know that it's going to be annoying as fuck to me when I level alts, because I can't stand having to grind out gear for them all. Just wanted to prepare you guys, because it's looking like we are going to need to run this dungeon to get the best gear.
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Postby Zeratulx » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:30 pm

FYI this "Infusion" stat they are talking about only affected the said boss it was required for in GW1. People may be able to safely assume this will work like in GW1 where the "Infusion" stat only works in the said instance/area. We will have to wait and see.
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Postby Twystyd » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:55 pm

I want in on the dungeon runs. Fast and sweet is about the only way I can tolerate the PvE in this game.
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Postby Zeratulx » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:02 am

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/749 ... try2075540

A new blog post from Linsey Murdock describes some of the new "Ascended" gear coming to Guild Wars 2 in the upcoming November update and why it's being introduced. This has become an incredibly hot topic the moment it came out of the oven early this morning. Players have stated concerns about future gear progression as well as the role the new infusion slots will have in the game.

You can read this blog post on the Guild Wars 2 official website here, but here's a quick summary for those looking for some answers.
There will be a new monster condition called "Agony", which is where the new infusion slots come into play.
Players must "infuse" to protect against this deadly new ailment.
Infusion slots come in Offensive, Defensive, and Omni protective varieties.
In terms of rarity, Ascended items fall between Exotic and Legendary.
Currently, Ascended items only come in the form of rings and back slots, but there's room to expand in the future.
Quote
As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression. Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level. Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.

How do you feel about the introduction of a new tier of gear to the game? What about the new Fractal dungeons or Agony? Tell us what you think below!
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Postby Twystyd » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:24 pm

Sweet Rob, thanks. We should set up a time when all 4 of us can make it. What's the chances of everyone being able to hop in vent and have a meeting over the ext few days? I can be on anytime after 4pm EST the rest of the week. It would be cool to catch up with everyone on their thoughts and schedule a raid time for the new dungeon. We need 3 completions for the monthly as well as the new gear so it's going to be worth doing.
Last edited by Twystyd on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Zeratulx » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:04 pm

I'm always on after 6:30 est but take a break at like 8:30 or 9 to chill with the wife. then back on at like 10.
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Postby Sirion » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:00 pm

I'll have time to be around Thursday through Sunday in the evenings like normal. I'm not so sure I'm digging this method of providing progression though. The problem that I'm seeing that will indefinitely come up is, if you want to make another character, you're fucked, because by the time you get it to 80 you won't have any of the "agony" stat (assuming ascended gear only drops in the new dungeon and that can only be done at 80), which means you will miss out on a tier of gear because you won't be allowed to group up for the dungeon without it.

I have to say, that after Jason and I had a chat about DAoC for about an hour and some change the other day, I really started to feel the difference between DAoC and GW2, and exactly how different the marketplace for MMOs is today. I mean, in DAoC, while there are items with better stats/procs/weapon speed/etc than others, the weapons are still capped at 16.5 dps, the armor is still capped where it was in vanilla and even if you get a dragon weapon or an artifact, it doesn't matter, because the cap is still the cap. The only things you can get on those alternative weapons are cool stats like %haste and procs. I find it odd that they can't find a way to promote and incorporate items that aren't "better" without making them superior in quality ala stats and armor and whatnot.

They could easily start making weapons that do shit like "reduce the cooldown of abilities by x%" or "increases attack/cast speed by x%" but which lack stats (or have less stats), so it becomes a choice as to how much of those things you stack and in what slots you put them. It's really too bad that games like WoW incorporated a GCD and autoattacks, because back in DAoC all attacks were on next hit, which meant that haste increased your number of specials over a period of time because you swung your weapon more often. What this also meant was that having a faster weapon wasn't necessarily a negative thing, because while you couldn't frontload damage the same way you could with an extremely slow weapon, you could make that up in damage over time.

It seems like the way the weapon system works in this game it limits itself to only being able to increase the damage you can do via base stats or special stats, since things like weaponspeed are meaningless in the games that rely on cooldowns or instant attacks. This means that once the players are feeling progression capped here, since no one is making tons and tons of legendaries and this is the only progression beyond exotics, that they will need to increase the cap again, further exacerbating the problem that I am talking about. And as someone that likes to play multiple toons depending on what we are getting into over the course of a game's life, I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed with this decision tbh.
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Postby Sirion » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:18 pm

So, I just looked at the blog post, by Linsey Murdock, and just looking at those stats pisses me off.

Each piece of gear has 8% more stats than the equivalent exotic (ascended = 68 pow/prec, the exotic has 63 pow/prec), which means that just in the six slots that are currently available there are already a total of 48% more stats available to those with ascended gear than those with exotics. Once this pushes over into armor and weapons, we will absolutely have to have this gear to remain competitive in WvW.
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Postby Zeratulx » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:25 pm

I'm sure Anet is going to provide updated craftable gear and gear acquired through WvW progression, they have to. If not then I simply quit.
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Postby Sirion » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:30 pm

Their response to WvW and better rewards (or any kinds of rewards) are simply, wait and see, we're looking into it, but we don't have any answers for you right now. Right now it's not a huge huge huge deal, because the bonuses you get for having full ascended items in your extra slots are only worth ~30 more stats, but taken into the context of how much each item gives, that's almost like going into WvW without having an earring or something.

The concern that I'm personally worried about is not the immediacy of this change as being a negative thing, but the precedence that it sets. No matter how you want to look at this, GW2 just gained a gear treadmill. It may not be a large one this very minute, but 5 non expansion content patches like this from now it will be larger. Two expansions from now it will be even larger. From what I understood the only reason to buy expansions in GW1 was because the gear looked cool and the legendaries were new.

I can get a gear grind in WoW and have compelling PvE at the same time. I can get more compelling PvP from DAoC, even if the movement and UI are terrible, and I won't ever have to worry about fucking around with constantly upgrading my gear beyond SCing/Alching a set (even 11 years later) and keeping backup pieces for when those pieces break.

GW2 is unique right now in that its PvP is somewhat reminiscent of DAoC's because you didn't have to re-gear every damn content patch and it offers pseudo RvR action. Well with the way the servers move through a ladder and the realms you fight always change, people give up on WvW too easily early in the week and you don't get to know who you are fighting, so there is no such thing as server pride the way we had realm pride. Also, all three BL maps are exactly the same layout, so you don't get a different experience unless you opt to fight in the EB, so it doesn't even feel like real RvR, but more like a super large Alterac Valley map with keeps that can be seiged.

I mean, I'm going to wait to see how it turns out, because there's no reason for me not to - I don't pay anything monthly for the game, but now I know that I can't take a two month break if I want to without having to worry about coming back to a damn treadmill of gear in order to be competitive again. And that sucks.
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Postby Twystyd » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:21 am

Freelancer has contact with Anet devs and told TL that you will also be able to get the gear from random keep lord drops and black lion chests. He doesn't believe it will be as hard to get as people think and most are QQ over nothing. Now, how much truth there is to that I am not sure.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion



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Postby Zeratulx » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:11 am

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/i ... -Whiteside


Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director
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