Molten Core Raid - BWC is INVITED to JOIN

[sansa]

Just wanted to Open up an offer,

I have developed a good standing with the GM of Sunder, and they run MC raids weekly. BWC is welcome and invited to join in on these raids.

In regards to loot - our first privilage didnot go smoothly... BUT! No worries, we have decided that it will go as follows:

- All roll
- Winner will get to decide what loot he/she desires
- I will announce the loot BWC will be claiming ( or whoever else will be the standing "leader" of BWC in the raid )
- NO ONE will WHINE or COMPLAIN about it


So, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE come on the raids - we had 8 of us tonight and it went really well! Hope to see you guys in Molten Core SOON!

[Nul]

Yah i think the loot issue only comes up when we have the option of choosing first or second loot. But I think that's a good way of dealing with it when we do get into those situations.

see you there again today

[Eirene]

Like my post will even matter at this point.

BWC officers on the raid will be handling loot distribution on behalf of the guild from here on out. This has also been communicated to Virus (leader of the MC raid).

[Liseyth]

Of course your post doesn't matter.

You, a member of BWC, happens to always spend your time with non bwc.

We had 11 people on the Sunder raid and guess where Eirene was...in another raid.

Where was Eirene last night when people were in Sunder raid? In another raid.

Who was invited to that other raid from BWC? Not a single person.

Eirene, the people who actually go will handle it. Your officers can go back to DAOC.

[Ganedar]

Whoa! Such hate!

[Hall]

I dont know what happend to you Mex you started off cool but gradually turned into an asshole. Maybe its real-life stress, or maybe you are just a dick. I am fairly certain that when you start MC if you are not with the people you started with you will be borked. Why would she invite anyone on the raid if you are already raiding?

Seriously mexal your shit attitude and your negative bullshit are starting to piss me off. Do this for me

Cry Me A River

Build a fucking Bridge

And get over it

dick

[Liseyth]

I'm tired of the elitest attitude in this guild. This is not something that I only see. Just like Eirene gets tells for her wonderful deeds, I get tells on the bullshit that goes on from people like Eirene. Not everyone has the balls to come here and call them out in hopes of change so you see me. You think I'm an asshole cause I voice an opinion. Would you rather me be quiet and continue to be a sheep? Is that all we are to you guys?

The Sunder raid started an hour before Eirene's raid on Friday. She could have easily invited BWC but no. When asked to join a group, she said she was doing MC in 2 hours. This was teh first raid therefore she could have EASILY invited BWC. But no, we're not good enough for that.

We invited 11 BWC to the Sunder raid yesterday. 11. How many were there the day before? 8 and not even the same ones. As long as the leader is the same, you can enter the same instance. You have to get past some trash mobs but it takes like 1/4 the time. L A G (who I think she was raiding with) was randomly asking people to join. I believe Sansa was asked to join after we left MC. So sorry Hall, but you're wrong.

Just the other day, she was pvping with some people and refused to invite some BWC members. Reason being? Her and Filth wanted to stay "elite."

So yes my attitude is bad when it comes to Eirene cause I"m tired of the bullshit. She gets involved in things that have nothing to do with her then shits on her own guild members by claiming they're not elite enough.

You know what, fuck her. I don't want anything to do with her and I hardly want to be under her control. If she wants to send an officer to our raid to handle all the loot, so be it, but I will not have her doing that. If one wants to come, they can handle it for all care (even though I have a few of them on ignore), but I will not cease raiding cause the officers got other things to do with other guilds.


And I'm cool when the hypocritical bullshit isn't going on. I'm cool when people aactually care for their guild members and not other guilds. I'm cool when you actually do things with me, but if you shit on me because you're higher than me, then I am not cool and will not be cool just to appease other officers like you.

Sorry. That's just how i am.

One more thing. You officers always tell us to step up and lead shit. That it's our job to do this and that and the officers have no responsibility to do anything with us if they do not want to. Why then do we need a babysitter (ie: sending Rhuac to handle the Sunder raid because you didn't trust that 10 BWC members can make a decision on their own. We actually have to have one of the meanest people in the guild handle our loot and a guy I constantly have on ignore)? We had a single problem with loot which has since been fixed (how many BWC raids have I been on where we've had problems?) and now we need a BWC officer with us at all times to make sure that my diaper is changed regularly.

If you want us to be independent and lead shit, then don't treat us like we're 12.

[sansa]

I personally have no problems letting officer's handle the situation, but then I guess that requires you OFFICERS to attend raids with us - so if your not there we dont get loot? bullshit!!!!!!

I do think that maybe mex is a lil blunt about what he says, but feel him out - why would someone who wont raid with us tell us that we arent allowed to come up with a fair way of loot?! I agree that the first time was a fuckup and moslty was my mistake and all those who were there by not thinking ahead of time... but we learned and are trying to fix it - "we" being those who raid with sunder and go to MC on weekly basis....

I think the difference here is, We invite EVERYONE to attend raids we are invited to (or lead), yes Virus invited BWC because I took initative to get to know him and he likes our players - so, why when we are all raiding would a guildmember opt to raid with another group? Isnt that why you join a guild - to group with them and get support??! Just seems odd to me is all, but take it how you want to - I dont care if you dont want to come, but then dont critisize me or any of us for trying to figure out a fair system.

You all used to complain that no-one was leading or inviting to raids- well.... here we are EVERY single day finding out where people want to go and going there, as far as Im aware Mexal and I are the only one's who currently lead a scholo raid 3 times a week - and guess what?! YOUR ALL INVITED TO COME!!!!! same goes for the sunder raids to Molten Core.

I can only hope you will take me seriously when I say that I want ppl to show up so we can learn this place and maybe someday - we can run our own raid to molten core.

[Hall]

Her and Filth

Ima break it down for you. We have no control over what other people do.

If we are doing something with a diffrent set of ppl and they say no we can

leave or deal with it.

Since god knows how long you have been this pessimistic jackass who moans and complains. But yet wants something done. Yet claims we cant? So what the fuck do you want? If you want shit done do it dont complain that ppl are not good enough.

Far as MC goes, I could care less I wasnt invited to the L.A.G raid am I crying up a fucking storm no. Because I dont really care much for epic shit. I do know that the 2nd MC raid was fucked up time wise.

Lastly the point is not officer on raid so they can get loot. Point is officer on raid so ppl dont get fucked over on stupid judgement calls. IE what happend last raid. Lil mistakes add up in the fact that if they say we cant get X amount of loot for said mistake a whole slew of ppl are fucked on time because of said lil mistake.

You talk about meanest? How would you feel having to deal with people bitching and moaning and talking out of line for every move you make. Despite what you want to belive other guilds look to Eirene for BWC related info not you not sansa. Thats how it is and thats how you got to deal with. But then again if you dont like it you can leave, like the other 9times except this time stay the fuck out.

Yea and sorry friends are availible outside of guild. Because yea 75% of Reso was BWC.

[Liseyth]

I had a post but deleted it.

I'm tired of arguing.

One thing I will say though. I never left the guild. Not once. I gave 2 gold to Dwayne when we needed 10g to start the guild and have been in it ever since that day.

[sansa]

I dont care what Eirene does with other ppl - nor anyone for that matter.... but if you wont let us handle our own shit with the people who want to go, how is that fair? Officer comes on raid they can control whatever the fuck they want to - if they arent there we are suposed to not go? or opt to not get loot?! I already said that a mistake happnd that first time - and I am sorry for that and the inconvience it gave anyone who was there, but again - how do we learn without making a few mistakes down the road... Im letting myself take responisbility for the mis-judgement call because I was in fact "in charge" on that particular raid, and I have opted to let other ppl handle it ---- OR, better yet, why dont the ppl who WANT and DO go on the raid come up with a system that works for ALL of us?!

Please dont make snide ass comments towards me, I am doing my best to help ppl in the guild and to get ppl together - if you dont like me fine- you dont have to, but dont disregaurd that I am making a sincere effort.

[Sectoid]

Word

[Sirion]

Just the other day, she was pvping with some people and refused to invite some BWC members. Reason being? Her and Filth wanted to stay "elite."

Kim has never once been the group leader of any PvP groups that I've had her in, and I refuse to zerg around like a horde of enclave newbs. The only time I have ever had a BWC person ask me for an invite to a pvp group, aside from Hall and Kim, has been Xark, and unfortunantly the two times he has asked, myself and my guildmates were about to go out to dinner, or clearing Winterspring of a few rogue and druid gankers before we broke off into our respective 5 mans and did our own thing.

I have been asked to join a raid group once by a BWC member, and they had 15 people in it, and wanted my 8 to join them. Sorry, but winning through pure numbers alone doesn't even feel like winning, it feels like being a cheap zergling newb. Neither Kim, nor Hall have any say in who I invite and who I don't. People choose to play with their friends, if they want to play with friends outside of their guild, then who are you to judge them?

Anyways, this isn't an attack at you, this is just a straight fact. If you want to join my raid, one the few instances I do pvp raids, then you ask me. You don't ask someone I know or someone that's in my raid to ask me for you. And furthermore, I have never once used the term "want to stay elite" or any variation of that term, because I don't see myself or my guild as "elitests." We play to have fun, the fact that we are good at working together and playing this GAME doesn't make us elitests. Thanks.

[Xarkon]

Filth

Do you know when they tally up all the crap is it Sunday Night or Tuesday

If it's tuesday were going to have another craptastic maintence day of people trying to see their scores,buying shit,whining, etc

[Eirene]

Well first off I don't care what you guys think of me. If you guys think I'm some terrible person...I don't care.

I spoke to Virus about the incident because a lot of people were very very angry about the situation that occured. Let me remind you that I first communicated to Virus about holding "joint" MC raids between our guilds. I had real life stuff going on and couldn't attend the first raid. I'm not a fan of "open" raids. I've always done things with people I know or have grouped with prior...I've done it in DAoC all the time. Virus wanted an "open" and "flexible" raid and I said we would try our best to field as many people as we could and it would be up to guild members if they wanted to attend, not mandatory like I had hoped we would agree to. I only communicated to Virus that only officers on the raid will roll on behalf of the guild on loot items because we don't want any incidents like the Rare schematic to occur again. Any other raid with any other guild is up to your discretion. Maybe in a few weeks, when Sunder and BWC has been doing some more consistent MC raids maybe other people other than officers can take a more active role. If there aren't any officers on the raid, maybe you should ask officers online if its ok for you to represent the guild or say something in guild chat, like you usually do. It's not "holding your hand"...it's about guild reputation. Typically I'm the first one to hear about what happened.

The MC raid I was recently on was held by L A G and I was invited 5 days ahead of time with ingame emails/personal emails to show up at appointed time. They had 40 people committed but things could come up. So they were seeking replacements for those people which is why some people in the guild received tells. I have grouped with L A G and Cryptic Union on their Onyxia raids also which is why I'm invited a lot to their Epic Raids.

As for pvp, every time I'm online Chris/Filth/Sirion invites me to pvp with them. We used to RvR everyday for like 5 months for 6-7 hours a day (until New Frontiers was launched). So there is a "relationship" per se. No one has asked me specifically if they wanted to pvp with me. Same as Dark Whisper. I used to pvp with Mjay on Andred every day for 4 months. Hall and I would get up at 4 am est-7 am est to defend a keep/territory from 90-100 people attacking our relics (when we were on Andred). All those people I've had a longstanding history and relationship. I have fun with them and isn't that what gaming is about?

Third, guild relations is also in my realm for some strange reason. In DAoC I was the Guild Master/Guild Leader for the BWC guild when Superhelix took a break the 3rd time (when he got bored with Lance/after he sold Costco). There were about 70 active members (many in WoW Resonance and Redux now) and we tore through ToA Master Levels, made millions and millions of guild realm points and had a lot of fun. Since I was a GM in DAoC...many still look to me as a 2nd leader which I didn't want to be in WoW. When Super is out on business or away from the game, typically any "guild business" is done by me or Law. Like giving access to message board, inviting them to guild etc. More like an administrator...

So...We could ramble on and on about how you guys hate me...or at least compromise that we both have interests in the improvement of the guild. This problem is not going to go away. I know we both are unhappy but what is there really to resolve? Absolutely nothing.