btw, i'm the asshole.

[killets]

just to give you guys a heads up, last night i told rhia that she would make a better aug healer because she never primary mezzes, and we are lacking good aug healers to compliment the many good pac healers we have.

lubu, d and even me are pretty good about winning mez, and after that, pac isn't as useful as someone who can put up the most important resists in the game, celerity, and bigger bigger heals, better rezzes, etc.

anyways, turns out i'm the asshole (she took offense apparently =[ )because its heresy to suggest to people how they can better help the guild, themselves, and aggregate performance, so I'm just giving you guys a heads up.

no </3 only <3.

[SuperHelix]

True we need aug healers.

[Bulor]

it could be mostly how you might have said if(i wasn't there and this is the first time i'm hearing of this) BUT, you can change your wording in order to have things work out better... PC/PR can go a long way.

could have stated..

Only us radar healers should be pac, would be great if the non-radar healers went aug/mend, rhia if we got you a stone would you respec?

see how much nicer that sounds =) lol

but heres the thing with being a aug healer.. at times you might be the only only. and giving up yellow poc, 4 instants.. it's painful for just cel 3 and larger heals which just drain more mana.(and without the poc to handle the drain, yer screwed).

[Winke]

Rich was nice, what he ment to tell her is that she contributes absolutely nothing to an RvR team, she only rezes, she is the last one alive ALWAYS (opposite of cele, lol), she NEVER heals, and I am not sure if she contributes to mez/stun. So with all that said if she spec's Aug at least she might be a usefull Aug bot. Rich tried to put it in a very nice way and he got burned for it.

I like Rhia, nice lady, sucks at RvR

Winke

P.S-Rich I wouldn't worry about it bro we all <3 your mad skillz

[Rhuac]

I concur.

[killets]

it could be mostly how you might have said if(i wasn't there and this is the first time i'm hearing of this) BUT, you can change your wording in order to have things work out better... PC/PR can go a long way.

could have stated..

Only us radar healers should be pac, would be great if the non-radar healers went aug/mend, rhia if we got you a stone would you respec?

see how much nicer that sounds =) lol

1) I tried to put it as nicely as I could. I told her she should try out the spec on Pendragon, and use the free skill respec in NF to change to it if she could handle it. Watching the officer chat, its obvious if lubu tried she would have left the guild i could tell she was sad to hear that from me, but at the same time angry that I'd have the gall to tell her how she could play her toon better. of course she was displeased to the point where my /hugs were ignored.

2) You don't have to radar to be good at primary mez. It helps when you know what direction they're coming from of course, but come on, going at speed 6, you'll _NEVER_ get hit from behind. If you have a half decent driver, when you run at speed 6 you should always see the targets ahead, barring hills or something. If you just want to radar for zerg avoidance, have one of the radaring tanks or something drive, you don't have to radar to primary mez. You just have to hit buttons fast enough, and I'm not intententionally trying to put anyone down by saying this, but some people are just faster button pushers. play to your strengths if you can. even though bwc is as much about family as it is about winning, winning has to be a part of the guild. More than half of us don't play to win. So yes, a lot of us, even myself aren't the most skilled players in the world, but that's what makes trying to optimize our groups more important, so that we can make up for lost ground. Never mind the fact that most of the people in bwc don't care enough about winning to pve their way to artifact/gear success, at least we can get the groups/roles down imo.

but heres the thing with being a aug healer.. at times you might be the only only. and giving up yellow poc, 4 instants.. it's painful for just cel 3 and larger heals which just drain more mana.(and without the poc to handle the drain, yer screwed).

1) you forgot about resists, which stack in the current syste.m +16% resists, is actually a 19% reduction in CC times. It also helps a ton vs casters.
2) I'm gonna be quite honest, there have been times our group has wiped and a few healers are still at near full power, unless they rezzed someone mid battle (which is generally a waste of power... try to rez with egg or PR people.. that's what makes egg so fucking important). my philosophy is hey, if you can't cast them fast enough, at least make them big enough to cover for like 2 heals. Also, you'd have a much better rez this way too.
3) there's the issue of having too many responsibilities. you tri spec'd healers, unless you are very high in skill level, are wasting spec points in many cases, and rhia is a good example of that. She spec 19 aug, but has never once cast a celerity. Why spec aug that high if you aren't gonna use it? if you have a difficult time managing all the things a healer has to do, why not just narrow the field and do less things much better. I mean if you tri-spec, which is what she did, you have to constantly cast celerity every 15 sec, heal, and peel as much as you can, not to mention land primary mez if that's how you intended to spec your class. frankly, if you concentrate on just HEALING, then casting celerity when you're free, you can make your life a whole lot simpler and easier to play at a competitive level. I would actually spec my healer aug if I cared to finish it. pac was just better for modernagrav groups.
4) poc/pom is overrated. half of you healers have FoP anyways.
5) if you're constantly peeling for yourself with ae insta cc, you're:
--a) not using instas offensively which should be what they're for.
--b) never giving your support the opportunity to peel for you, thus they'll never become good at it. think what michael jordan said, he had to miss a whole bunch of game winning shots before learning how to make them.
--c) instamez really shouldn't work on a tank train. they should be mez immune or mezzed with a hardcasted one to begin with. insta-stun is a poor form of defense, its barely a hiccup to det5 tanks. your shaman is supposed to ae root/disease off you. shamans have zero responsibilities except to disease, root and interrupt, and lightly heal.

[barbos]

I would consider it, but I would need pl'd, one respec, and training

[Eirene]

Ok I'll rvr with killets tonight to check things out.

[Naturalis]

lol killets. good pointers in there. i think another reason why she's slow to the mez is because of her computer. she told us that its slow or something.. so its not really her fault, but i dunno why she'd rvr with a slow computer for and risk us all dying.

then again, if we played like old times and zerg ftw, then it wouldnt really matter.

from what i see, i agree also that she never wins mez, and i made a comment or two in /o about why she was pac .. but if she wants to be, let her be, i dont think she'll change hehe.

and... finish your damn healer here

[Joshll]

Guys, your not wrong. But you are also looking at this through an 8man lens, for what fits you best, and not her.

We have lots of people in guild that aren't l33t. And until the last 4 months or so BWC played alot of different RVR styles. Rhi has been pac forever. She likes to think of herself as a mezzer/stunner. And in some situations she's probably great at it. In 8man, she may not be. But that doesn't mean it's a bad spec for her. Aug is a comparatively passive spec. Maybe she doesn't want that.

BWC is not an 8man guild. We won't be an 8man guild going forward. And don't expect many of our members to be qualified to be pure 8man people, it just may not be their thing.

[Keabit Guinness]

<---Joshll fanboi !!!

[Winke]

Josh read my post bro, she doesn't do shit, EVER (sorry for the sobering truth). Even if your in an 8man group you have got to be able to cast something sometime, correct? Rhia doesn't do jack shit. Everyone is being so polite about this (which is cool I like politeness its a nice disposition) but the facts are that Rhia doesn't do anything.

1) do Ilike RvRing with Rhia? NO she doesn't do jack shit
2) is she a nice gal? obsolutely I enjoy chating with her
3) should she remain BWC? she is nice sure why not
4) Why should Rhia spec Aug? (per Rich's recommendation)-Rhia doesn't contribute anything during RvR PERIOD, perhaps a passive spec like Aug is perfect for someone like that if you are going to play with them.

Winke

[killets]

Learning how to 8v8 effectively makes you better in almost all cases. The whole point is to get accustomed to reacting quicker, and to provide the maximum contribution your toon can make.

Having a tri-spec'd healer is basically putting them into a bard scenario. good bards are fucking hard to find. The good bards actually focus on doing 1-3 things really well, and leaving the 4th and 5th thing pretty much non-existent.

Bloodwinter Clan is not an 8v8 guild. But when you join an 8v8 group, don't you think its your obligation to conform to the standards of 8v8?

I mean, if you're a tank and have zero intention of assisting, why the fuck join an 8v8 group. All you do is make everyone miserable leading them to multiple deaths without even a kill. The same _MUST_ to be said about healers.

And personally, I can't really think of a keep scenario where not demezzing your groupmates immediately, not using insta cc to peel off support, not chain casting ae mez/amnesia to interupt other casters, etc is helpful in whatever bwc does, whether its keeps or not.

My opinion was valid. Whether or not she wants to spec mend/aug is obviously not up to anyone but her. My post here is to simply state that Rhiandra came away from our conversation in a depressed state, because she was reading too far between the lines, and that you guys should watch out for her, and not to agitate the situation if she decides to vent "behind the scenes".

There is no conspiracy to weed out all the sucky bwc players. There is a conspiracy to make our long time bwc members better gamers. I hope we all come here to play have fun AND WIN, not just mess around in game, fuck the results.

[Joshll]

You guys have been great at running GUILD groups.

My point is that Rhi may not look at it as joining an 8man group. She may look at it as joining the only GUILD rvr going which happens to be 8man.

If we expect everyone to be able to perform well in 8man, we're going to be throwing out 1/2 the guild, most of which are ok in RVR in the other things we do.

And yah, we all should be willing to learn and get better. And we can help each other. Just remember that not everyone approaches this the same, and not everyone is as driven as some of us. I get pissed nearly every time I die. I hate losing. Most people deal with it better than me. But thats because they are approaching the game different than me. And thats ok...

[Sirion]

i only trust two healers absolutly with cc in this guild. D and ceregon. i know the rest of the healers can and do win mezz, but i have never seen anyone win mezz as much as the two of them do. and for the record, ceregon doesnt use radar, and never has, so you obviously dont have to be a radar healer to win mezzes, although it is getting harder and more and more opposing groups have radar mezzers.

and i do agree that sometimes some of our healers arent optimizing their performance, i have died tons of time with no heals healers at full mana with both instas up and no cc landed. although, im not sure if i would rather die with my healers oom and have them die last, or for them to die first meaning we obviously werent peeling/assisting/killing as well as our opponents..