I'm playing a Banshee....

[Eirene]

WoW does have a few great things :

- Interface, Character movement system owns DAoC, SWG, EQ
- Multizones content. At least 10 times the zones to pve/pvp in than in DAoC. If I wanted to farm crafting items, I can go to at least 6-7 zones instead of just going to a ToA zone or SI zone.
-Quests - Just more in depth than DAoC atm. Catacombs quests are just TOO SIMPLE. I'm sure the quests are aimed toward the brainless and new people who play but I want challenging quests! Long chain quests that forces me to go to other zones like SI/ToA instead of courier quests to Guard A to Guard B. Although its quick experience and I'm sure thats why it's simple and easy. (My Banshee is almost 40)
-Crafting system via levels. Have to be a certain level to achieve craft milestones.
-Hearthstones. Any time I'm running with the group and we want to go to another instance or zone, I wish we had hearthstones to TNN or any other capitol city so we can progress. We mostly have to suicide out or find an obelisk to port somewhere.
-Ingame EMAIL and Trade system via EMAIL

PvP is still great in DAoC though. I killed 10 albs in Molvik last night with the ubah CAE spell ><

[Joshll]

DAOC PVP > WoW
WOW PVE > DAOC

I've levelled a 60 hunter, a 48 Elf druid, and a 50 tauren druid. The two alliance toons were before the honor patch. And my horde char has mostly been with the honor patch (which I shall now call the "gank me" patch). Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I have never not once had someone the same level as me or lower initiate combat with me. The majority of the time the people that attack me are ?? to me so the fight is a predetermined outcome. Wheeee!

This morning I had a great 20 minute fight with a Palidan 1 level higher than my druid that attacked me talking to a NPC. Slow ass fight and I finally get him down to zero mana, the win is in sight, and he calls in a fakkin guildy to steal my win. Bleh.

[heartless_]

Yeah the ganking is bad...

If the system had been there from the start it would be no where nearly as bad. Everyone would of grown up with the system.

When they released it after a good chunk of people were level 60 and bored already... we had nothing to do but go out and gank. The good level 60 areas are camped out and the only chance we have at small scale PvP is in the more remote areas... therefore you get a gank squad at each wind rider, choke point, and quest spawn.

BG's will take away a good chunk of 60's, but ganking will be ganking... same as there was always that stealther on your side of DF ganking greys. Same as there was always stealthers at the MF's. Same as stealthers always at the docks.

[Keabit Guinness]

After some thought, I actually like the reward system in WoW more than the DAOC Realm Ranks.

I like the fact that there can't be that UBER group ALL the time with ALL the best RR gear in WoW. It's like facing Ascendancy or Desolate without the RR11's and there artifacts. It's fair to say that if I were to play for a week straight and get a nice high HK level. I deserve it. If I don't play, I don't. Therefore, I can't just log on and PWN because I did all this PvP in the past.

Wasn't that sometimes an argument in DAOC. "If it wasn't for so and so's RA"s we would have beat them". "The group that just killed us was RR8 and above". "I can't compete with that high of a RR character". This system now helps. If people do not PvP all the time, you don't get your shit. And thats the way it should be. Kinda a "What have you done for me lately" system.

Now, I know what some of you must think. "Hey, I PvP'd that whole time, I DESERVE those powerful weapons ALL the TIME!".

Nej, I say...Nej.

This system seems to get rid of the Epeen to a point. People have to go out and play to get epeen and high level weapons. Not just PvP for 3 weeks straight, then PvE for 2 weeks, and expect to log back on and have your gear. If you PvP all the time. You deserve it, if not...eh oh well.

The gankage does suck. But this is no way like Mordred leveling. This PvP is actually kinda easy mode. Sure, we have all gotten ganked while leveling. I'm level 38 and enjoying the PvE aspect of the game. Throw in a little PvP, and boom, I'm digging it.

I'll have to wait to comment on lvl 60 and above, since I'm not obviously there yet.

As it once said in Hall's signature...."You are not your Realm Rank." Now with WoW, you definatley aren't. Unless of course you choose to be and play all the time.

[Augomatic]

Well, I think both are flawed. DAoC has the benefit of allowing someone who plays off and on to build up RR over time. I'm just now hitting 6L6 on my BD, despite playing him on and off for 2 years.

It also allows you to play multiple toons with a bit more flexibility. I got tired of PvP for a bit, so I took a break and went out and levelled up the savage and skald, and even got them some artis. When I feel like going back to the BD, there is no "penalty" for me doing so.

As you said though, it does create a larger gap between the haves and have nots. That is more a question of design imo, where Mythic added a few RA's (ST, TWF, DI come to mind) that are "game winners" when they should be paired down.

The big problem I see with the WoW system is I'd never get the top reward. No matter how "good" I am, there is no way I'm going to bump out someone who plays 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. In DAoC however, I can get RR12, all the best artis, and ML10. It will just take me way longer, but at least I can do it.

In WoW, at L60, I could see myself getting frustrated by the fact that no matter how long I play, I'll never get above the Tier 5 reward or whatever it is, simply because I can't play as much. On top of that, if I did manage to get the Tier 3 reward after a good week, I'd just lose it again.

[heartless_]

The top tier rewards are more a status symbol like mounts and so forth... rather than overpowering items. The weapons and so forth are mediocre(compared to what is in game) and it is still +stats that determine really the power behind your attacks.

Also "It also allows you to play multiple toons with a bit more flexibility"...

I don't necissarly agree. With WoW you have the option that if you play your one class hardcore for a week or two... you can get them up to a higher rank faster. Essentially leveling to 60 is not just the "start" as level 50 in DAoC is.

At 60 you can compete with green gear and be moderately succesful. You can take any class you've leveled to 60 and go PvP with it... you are not a year behind in RR's.

This allows people to catch up.

Also you don't have groups anymore that can just sub in their RR10 healers at any time... they have to have healers dedicated to group and stay in the top ranks.

What makes me mad is that all the PvP I did while leveling is mute. I used a UI mod to track my kills before the honor patch. I was something like 1000 wins and 100 losses.... and I had only used it since level 50 or so.

I honestly have no time anymore to dedicate in game and am damn glad I got 60 when I did have the time. My goal was 60 before GW released... and I was two weeks ahead of schedule.

I log into WoW to do some AH, enchanting, and thats it lately. I can't stand doing PUG's anymore. I got a few good items from PUG's, but it is just to frustrating to waste a few hours of my time for no reward... usually with deaths from lack of good healers I am losing money going to dungeons.

The time vs. reward for instances is horrible in WoW. It honestly shocked me after I got to 60... complete shock. I understand the eBayers now... if you aren't a farmer type gamer you will never make money in this game.

End game raids net you barely and cash and you usually have a 1/5 chance of getting an item you can use in a raid. And as you get more of your items your chance of getting what you need turns into a nightmare.

In my last 3 or so raids I have come out with nothing of use. My only Scholomance raid I came out with a new 2H mace (not really to great either, but looks cool) but LOST money overall because I died 5 times and reparis was > the junk loot I got.

And its a joke that GREY JUNK ITEMS are worth more to a vendor than blues and most greens! And the grey junk drops are so few and far between that I don't even care about bag space anymore becuase I WILL NEVER FILL THEM IN A RAID or even 5 man.

I used to dread having to decide what stuff to get rid of when I was lower level... junk loot was everywhere. At 60 nothing drops anything... or its something retarded... like 50c nightcrawlers off Stratholme monster...ahahha.

Oh well DAoC wasn't much better...

[Augomatic]

Thats a good point about not having to RR level a new toon, so I guess your levelling does really end at 60.

I've seen the horror stories about raids. I talk to friends in Conquest who say they do quite a few raids a night, and still are lucky if they get the gear they are after after several months. They finally killed Ragnoros or whatever, and got like one drop, for a 40 person raid.

As for the PvP rewards being mostly status symbols, I wasn't aware of that (never played WoW at all). For me that's almost like no reward at all. Although I hate to admit it, I'm a "stats player" who likes to max everything out.

Not trying to say WoW is worse than DAoC or anything, just trying to get a take on it. I'm still having a lot of fun with DAoC, and its less work at the moment, so I'll probably stick with it.

[heartless_]

I hate Cheaterquest personally... well maybe just Itz and the core group... but anyways.

They release all their raid info publically since their banning for cheating the system.

But yeah the hardest boss in game dropped a +6 stamina +37 fire damage necklace... ROFL.

It just proves time vs. reward in this game blows. The instances are fun to go through, but damn if I feel cheated when I get nothing from the raid.

At least in GW everytime I do a hard mission I am getting exp, gear, fame, etc.

IMO WoW needs a better loot system that takes into account the people in the raid/group, the gear they already have, and then creates a better loot table for the raid.

The whole "see what rewards before you start a quest" thing really sold me on WoW early. What a joke that is. Most quests are chains that you don't know the reward until you get to the "talk to x and return to y" part at the end.

If I had known that green quest in my log lead to an uber blue shield I would of done the quest when I was leveling in the area.. blah.

[Xarkon]

kim you need a ml10 sojouner

[killets]

dude, gear isn't that hard to come by anymore for the guilds capable of raiding all the time.

on blackrock, 5 out of the 6 druids in the guild already have the onyxia helm. after next weeks raid, if it drops, we'll have to salvage it. we have 1 priest who has 5 pieces prophecy mc set already. honestly, I don't think there is 1 person in the guild who doesn't have at least 1 piece of MC/onyxia gear yet, with most averaging 2-3 pieces right now.

it's getting to the point that where a purple drops and people are saying "pass, already have it"

I actually love wow pvp. my problem with it is how they approach it.

1) mc/ony/kazzak/azuregos gear is way better than pvp epic gear. wtf.

2) you can zerg to win. our blackrock, the #1 ranked dude just this rogue that camps hillsbrad all day with a bunch of mages that jump up and down in the zerg spamming IAE then dying rezzing. wtf is the point.. that dude is so sorry that he was beat ina duel by a naked mage who didn't use poly. no skill involved with getting rank #1 in pvp.

3) my smaller guild (which is a subgroup of the pve guild we're sort of a part of... we're not technicalyl in that guild, but we get all the same rights as their guild members do b/c they love us or something), aka scorn, was probably the best 5 man group on the server hands down. we fought the best in arenas, our in dun morogh, etc, and no one stood a chance. since the pvp system came out, we were raiding IF as a 5man... and it took a lot of skill to do that, but in the end, 4 hours of 5 man killing groups of 10-20 at a time, we were only getting around 8k contribution for those 4 hours. decent, but it was very difficult to pull off (we ran priest priest rogue shaman mage btw). then you have iced, that no skill rogue i was talking about earlier in hillsbrand just running back and forth with IAE then dying, making 16k in those same 4 hours (he has averaged around 125k / wk btw).

what needs to happen is they need to have some type of reward system that rewards skill. the daoc 8man concept was great, but understandably, i could see how the casual player would object. it seems like the guild wars system of exclusive arenas is the way to go. if they could implement a system like that, it would definitely reinvigorate my interest in pvpthere. because functionally, the pvp in wow was the best. no easy ae cc ftw, or pbae bombs or any of that crap. in order to beat superior #s, it was all about teamwork. with fewer people in the group, and the abilities condensed, i felt it took much more skill than daoc, since the individual skill level of each player matters a lot more.