Mythic Rips Into SOE Over Auction Site
Following the news of Sony Online Entertainment's plans to launch an auction site for EverQuest II, we heard from Mythic Entertainment's CEO Mark Jacobs who called SOE's auction plans "one of the worst decisions in the history of the MMORPG industry." Jacobs thinks SOE is taking the industry down the wrong path. Find out why inside and then read SOE's response.
Mythic Entertainment, a developer of massively multiplayer online games known best for Dark Age of Camelot, is clearly not pleased with Sony Online Entertainment's decision to launch an official auction site for its games. GameDAILY BIZ received a statement from Mark Jacobs, president and CEO of Mythic Entertainment, in which he rips into SOE for setting a bad example as the leader in the MMO industry.
Worst decision in MMO history?
"I'm disappointed with the decision from a leader in the MMO industry to go down a path which in the past, has been an anathema to them and remains so to just about every other MMORPG company in the industry. I think that not only supporting the sale of in-game characters, items and currency, but also taking a 'cut' of those sales, is not only a mistake but one of the worst decisions in the history of the MMORPG industry," says Jacobs.
Jacobs also believes that the service will ultimately backfire in two ways. One, it will lead to frustrated players if their items get deleted or SOE has to make server changes; and two, it will also encourage the secondary market, which is exactly the opposite of what SOE is trying to do.
[ "We will gladly 'leave money on the table' to ensure that whether or not you like our games, that they remain as that, games and not an entertainment version of day-trading," Mark Jacobs, President and CEO, Mythic ]
"By creating this service, SOE may be painting themselves into a creative corner. What will happen when SOE finds it has to change or delete items, servers, etc? Will users who have bought items through SOE take kindly to the fact that their $800 swords have been deleted? Will SOE have to consider now and forever the ramifications of every major change they make to the game based on the possibility that users will not only be dissatisfied on an 'entertainment level' but now will be angry from a 'financial level' as well?" ponders Jacobs.
He continues, "Rather than discouraging companies such as IGE, I believe that by this decision, SOE will probably create dozens of small IGE and IGE-like companies who may view SOE's servers as the 'Virtual Gold Rush of 2005.' At the same time, this decision will reduce the costs of IGE who now can use SOE's own customer service, billing and bandwidth to complete these transactions quicker and easier than they can do under the present system."
Virtual marketplace concerns
Jacobs then discusses the ramifications of turning a game into a marketplace for players. He believes that SOE's auction service may lead to lawsuits and even tax problems for the big-time sellers. "By encouraging players to treat their game as a profit-making enterprise rather than as a game, SOE may increase their profit margin in the short-term but over the long-term will certainly increase the risk of both class-action and individual lawsuits, consumer fraud and customer dissatisfaction. The IRS may be interested in seeing the tax records of those 'heavy sellers' that utilize this service, and who knows where that will lead," he says.
Another problem that Jacobs foresees is one that's already prevalent in many MMOs: players that try to gain complete control over the best spots for acquiring loot. This, he says, will only lead to more customer service time for SOE. "One of the stated reasons for this decision was the fact that currently a lot of SOE's CSR time is taken up by dealing with fraudulent complaints. While the number of these complaints (or simply the time that is taken up by them) may decrease, won't SOE's CSRs have to spend more time now dealing with players who are seeking to monopolize the best revenue-generating spots? This type of behavior is already a problem in many online games and by directly tying their game systems to a real money auction system, this type of behavior is likely to increase thus forcing an increase in SOE's CSR time," explains Jacobs.
Games should be games
Lastly, he addresses the priorities of his own company, most importantly that Mythic wants to keep its games as just that. "Mythic Entertainment has turned down a number of opportunities to participate in such ventures, both with the companies that auction these goods, as well as doing it on our own. We remain committed to keeping our games as games and not as opportunities to encourage behavior that runs counter to their spirit of creativity and entertainment. We have no plans to participate in this type of service. We will gladly 'leave money on the table' to ensure that whether or not you like our games, that they remain as that, games and not an entertainment version of day-trading," concludes Jacobs.
SOE responds
GameDAILY BIZ contacted SOE to see what response they might have after hearing about the scathing comments made by Mythic's CEO. We immediately received the following statement from SOE President John Smedley:
In satisfying the broad player demand for a service such as Station Exchange, SOE is again innovating, and any innovation is bound to have its critics.
Unsanctioned virtual property auctions are now rampant, and will continue to grow whether or not publishers implement their own auction sites. Every MMO company has to assess the needs of its own player base. It is clear to us that we have many loyal and honest players who simply don't have the time to take multiple characters through the game's higher levels of play and want a sanctioned, secure means to broaden their play experience. Increasingly, our customer service department has had to bear the brunt of futily attempting to assist these players when they are cheated by unsecure transactions. Station Exchange will enable these honest players to use an auction service without concern that they will be scammed.
We want all of our players to have a positive experience and since our player base has been divided on this issue, with increasingly more support for real world monetary transactions, we have determined that offering new servers that are Station Exchange enabled is a great way to strike that balance. However, we will continue to maintain our strict policy against exploiting, using macros or bots, duping items, and transactions through 3rd party auction sites.
When SOE launched PvP enabled servers and dedicated role-playing servers for EverQuest, we knew that those communities would develop in a different way. In that same fashion, we fully expect that the Exchange-enabled server communities for EverQuest II will develop their community in a different way. When a player chooses to play on an Exchange-enabled server, they know that they will be playing with other like-minded players and that they will have the option of supplementing their own character's evolution through the Station Exchange. It will be an optional way to play our game.
However, we will continue to enforce our right to ban the accounts of players not only for explicit forms of cheating on all servers but also for disruptive gameplay. The game design of additional content for EverQuest II will remain focused on the original intent of the game and we will not allow the gameplay experience to be hindered by unfair play, whatever form that may take.
We are excited about Station Exchange and feel that we are taking the needs of all our loyal fans into account. Station Exchange simply gives the players a choice, and security for those whose choice is to utilize an auction service to enhance their game play experience.
The Pot Calls the Kettle Black! Discuss..
The Pot Calls the Kettle Black! Discuss..
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heartless_
- Keyboard Molesting Forum G33k
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$OE
Worst business decision in MMO history?
SOE's auction move is definately at the top of my list. SOE buying EQ would be another. SWG would be there too. See a pattern? $OE!
Worst gaming decision in MMO history?
TOA for DAoC is up there. Trammel expansion for UO would also rank up there. See a pattern? Good games making bad expansions.
I agree with a lot of what Jacobs says in that article. But you are right... these developers are unwilling to look at their product and see the reasons that cause this secondary market to open. But can you blame them? That is the question that needs to be answered.
Is this comparable to people buying wheels, spoilers, turbos, and other gadgets for their car? So they can win drag races. Some of them pay to have these parts installed because they lack the time or skills... and just like buying an account in an MMO you don't get the same respect as someone that has done all the work themselves.
To me it is not comparable because the premise of a video game is for a fair playing experience. However the developers... just like car companies... knowingly incorporate things that require the less skilled or time deprived users to spend money to improve performance through secondary markets.
But unlike cars... buying something in an MMO is an instant upgrade with no "do it yourself" option. You are simply buying the product and it requires no one to "install" it.
The "do it yourself" has to be done by yourself and if you don't have the time you are SOoL.
So there is two inherent problems that SOE and Mythic both fail to address...
1. The games are just to time intensive. Using addiction to keep subscriptions active. Offering time intensive activities instead of inovative new features.
2. The ability to trade currency and items in game leading to a secondary market outside the game for real life $$$ for in game items and currency.
Both can be fixed but at the loss of community interaction. Problem is figuring out what is worse. Hurting the community by restricting how money/items are traded or shutting down the secondary market for such things.
Worst business decision in MMO history?
SOE's auction move is definately at the top of my list. SOE buying EQ would be another. SWG would be there too. See a pattern? $OE!
Worst gaming decision in MMO history?
TOA for DAoC is up there. Trammel expansion for UO would also rank up there. See a pattern? Good games making bad expansions.
I agree with a lot of what Jacobs says in that article. But you are right... these developers are unwilling to look at their product and see the reasons that cause this secondary market to open. But can you blame them? That is the question that needs to be answered.
Is this comparable to people buying wheels, spoilers, turbos, and other gadgets for their car? So they can win drag races. Some of them pay to have these parts installed because they lack the time or skills... and just like buying an account in an MMO you don't get the same respect as someone that has done all the work themselves.
To me it is not comparable because the premise of a video game is for a fair playing experience. However the developers... just like car companies... knowingly incorporate things that require the less skilled or time deprived users to spend money to improve performance through secondary markets.
But unlike cars... buying something in an MMO is an instant upgrade with no "do it yourself" option. You are simply buying the product and it requires no one to "install" it.
The "do it yourself" has to be done by yourself and if you don't have the time you are SOoL.
So there is two inherent problems that SOE and Mythic both fail to address...
1. The games are just to time intensive. Using addiction to keep subscriptions active. Offering time intensive activities instead of inovative new features.
2. The ability to trade currency and items in game leading to a secondary market outside the game for real life $$$ for in game items and currency.
Both can be fixed but at the loss of community interaction. Problem is figuring out what is worse. Hurting the community by restricting how money/items are traded or shutting down the secondary market for such things.
I think it's good for 1 reason. They are at least TRYING to control a billion doller uncontrolled industry. I think preventing people from getting scammed is a good thing.
Like you said the problem with most MMO's is the time aspect of playing. These companies are making more and more rabbit holes to keep more customers interested for longer periods of time.
SOE knows their customers have been engaging in this market for years. Only until IGE found a loophole in the intelectual property rights vs. human hr services has it become even more popular. Jumping on the bandwagon now is probally the right thing to do then trying to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exsist.
If they think they are going to limit sales to specific servers they are being nieve. If they can condone these sales and prevent any ebay, illegal trades I think it will put more money into Soe pocket and fill a nitch that some of their customers desire. If they want to really control this they need to take the $ signs out of Asian farmers and Money hungry gamers. SOE should be the ONLY person selling their intellectual property rights, AND ONLY trading is permitted between Customers at a expense. Not only are YOU making more money but now controlling a billion doller industry that was theirs to begin with.
One final note: I understand these are games and paying money for virtual items is stupid. It's amazing that in this world in order to stay competitive you must pay thousands of dollers on what some people consider entertainment. I always thought the enjoyment of playing these games was to interact in a society without social and racial barriers. When you find yourself wanting to buy a $26,500 plot of virtual land http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?a ... =8610#8610 so you feel better then everyone else it time to unplug......
Like you said the problem with most MMO's is the time aspect of playing. These companies are making more and more rabbit holes to keep more customers interested for longer periods of time.
SOE knows their customers have been engaging in this market for years. Only until IGE found a loophole in the intelectual property rights vs. human hr services has it become even more popular. Jumping on the bandwagon now is probally the right thing to do then trying to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exsist.
If they think they are going to limit sales to specific servers they are being nieve. If they can condone these sales and prevent any ebay, illegal trades I think it will put more money into Soe pocket and fill a nitch that some of their customers desire. If they want to really control this they need to take the $ signs out of Asian farmers and Money hungry gamers. SOE should be the ONLY person selling their intellectual property rights, AND ONLY trading is permitted between Customers at a expense. Not only are YOU making more money but now controlling a billion doller industry that was theirs to begin with.
One final note: I understand these are games and paying money for virtual items is stupid. It's amazing that in this world in order to stay competitive you must pay thousands of dollers on what some people consider entertainment. I always thought the enjoyment of playing these games was to interact in a society without social and racial barriers. When you find yourself wanting to buy a $26,500 plot of virtual land http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?a ... =8610#8610 so you feel better then everyone else it time to unplug......
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heartless_
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I know more gamers who quit MMO's because of the secondary markets that are rampant in the first few months of release and they see 100's of players with stuff they did not earn.
I was afraid WoW or any big name MMO would bring this to light even more. The more popular = the more casual gamers that will come onboard. New casual gamers = lured to eBay quite easily for the quick fix. I honestly wonder how many new WoW players are kicking themselves for gold bought after they started getting into the end-game realising how easy money and gear were to achieve. Even though I don't agree with the farming that is required... it relatively easy.
$OE is only doing it because their products are failing and are costing way more than the competition to develop. SWG was nearing triple digit millions and only survived on the Star Wars name. EQ 2 came with name recoginition and is a failure in cost analysis with what they probably spent.
Unfortunately $OE drives up monthly fees and then starts powdering income with these other services. Other MMO's follow suit because honestly it does take a good business first and a good game second. $OE proves it.
Hell I've compared $OE to Big Tobacco companies because they do the same thing. Feed their customers addiction and they will pay regardless the fee.
I was afraid WoW or any big name MMO would bring this to light even more. The more popular = the more casual gamers that will come onboard. New casual gamers = lured to eBay quite easily for the quick fix. I honestly wonder how many new WoW players are kicking themselves for gold bought after they started getting into the end-game realising how easy money and gear were to achieve. Even though I don't agree with the farming that is required... it relatively easy.
$OE is only doing it because their products are failing and are costing way more than the competition to develop. SWG was nearing triple digit millions and only survived on the Star Wars name. EQ 2 came with name recoginition and is a failure in cost analysis with what they probably spent.
Unfortunately $OE drives up monthly fees and then starts powdering income with these other services. Other MMO's follow suit because honestly it does take a good business first and a good game second. $OE proves it.
Hell I've compared $OE to Big Tobacco companies because they do the same thing. Feed their customers addiction and they will pay regardless the fee.
Yea I know what yea mean. I played Swg and there was a HUGE backlash at SOE in that game. EQ2 in many ways is ground breaking. Gfx, Dialog, and now selling shit. The time I spent playing in EQ2 I had MAJOR respect for the Devs AND customer support. They listened to their fanbase and make fixes almost everyday. I have never seen something bugged or broken that wasn't fixed on the fly or next day and that my friends cost big money. The devs know how to make a good game nothing in the market will touch EQ2 for at least 5 years I bet. Since this selling is again ground breaking I think only time will tell but I woudl imagine it gets handled improperly knowing Soe's background.
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heartless_
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"They listened to their fanbase and make fixes almost everyday."
But they didn't listen until WoW stomped them and they realised the EQ name wasn't going to carry the product. They made changes because they waited until release to see if their bullshit would fly.... and it didn't so they changed it.
How many things in EQ 2 should of simply been there at release... but no $OE firmly believes in... beta = get game servers running... release = fix the gameplay. SWG is a tragic tale to this day of this... any other name other than Star Wars and that game dies at release. EQ 2 is just flat out ripping off WoW because $OE see's the huge # of WoW players and gets greedy... realizing what us gamers have been telling them for years was true... casual friendly gameplay and creativity is what we want... not barbie doll graphics and grinding treadmills.
Graphics, voices, etc... all come from having the bank roll and lack of a creative process. Blizzard has the creative process and builds from there... they don't throw money at things like $OE does. $OE knows they can toss 100 million at an MMO and have it be succesful.
I personally like NCSoft approach to the market... smaller more audience directed games under one unifying banner. Aside from L2 you have NCSoft sitting on a good group of games.
But they didn't listen until WoW stomped them and they realised the EQ name wasn't going to carry the product. They made changes because they waited until release to see if their bullshit would fly.... and it didn't so they changed it.
How many things in EQ 2 should of simply been there at release... but no $OE firmly believes in... beta = get game servers running... release = fix the gameplay. SWG is a tragic tale to this day of this... any other name other than Star Wars and that game dies at release. EQ 2 is just flat out ripping off WoW because $OE see's the huge # of WoW players and gets greedy... realizing what us gamers have been telling them for years was true... casual friendly gameplay and creativity is what we want... not barbie doll graphics and grinding treadmills.
Graphics, voices, etc... all come from having the bank roll and lack of a creative process. Blizzard has the creative process and builds from there... they don't throw money at things like $OE does. $OE knows they can toss 100 million at an MMO and have it be succesful.
I personally like NCSoft approach to the market... smaller more audience directed games under one unifying banner. Aside from L2 you have NCSoft sitting on a good group of games.
heartless_ wrote:"They listened to their fanbase and make fixes almost everyday."
But they didn't listen until WoW stomped them and they realised the EQ name wasn't going to carry the product. They made changes because they waited until release to see if their bullshit would fly.... and it didn't so they changed it.
How many things in EQ 2 should of simply been there at release... but no $OE firmly believes in... beta = get game servers running... release = fix the gameplay. SWG is a tragic tale to this day of this... any other name other than Star Wars and that game dies at release. EQ 2 is just flat out ripping off WoW because $OE see's the huge # of WoW players and gets greedy... realizing what us gamers have been telling them for years was true... casual friendly gameplay and creativity is what we want... not barbie doll graphics and grinding treadmills.
Graphics, voices, etc... all come from having the bank roll and lack of a creative process. Blizzard has the creative process and builds from there... they don't throw money at things like $OE does. $OE knows they can toss 100 million at an MMO and have it be succesful.
I personally like NCSoft approach to the market... smaller more audience directed games under one unifying banner. Aside from L2 you have NCSoft sitting on a good group of games.
At least there game servers were running when the game was released. I'd much rather deal with bugs than just not be able to play at all.
WoW is nothing special.. It's 15 minutes of fame is dieing and it will quickly become yet just another MMORPG like every other.
EQ2 launch was nothing like SWG.
I don't see anything of value except WOW > EQ2, which is only your preference. Both have their pro's and con's. Not everyone is a diehard PVP fanatic.
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heartless_
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heartless_
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Zoidmeister
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